He Buried the Fallen After D-Day: WWII Veteran George Ciampa

Documentary First, Episode 115 · with George Ciampa, WWII graves registration veteran, and co-hosts Josh Lindsay and Jason Rugg · 42 minutes · May 19, 2021

Listen: Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all apps · Watch: YouTube · Read: Full transcript

What did a WWII graves registration soldier do after D-Day?

George Ciampa wanted to fly fighter planes. He failed the air cadet eye test twice, was drafted at 18 in November 1943, and was put in a graves registration company. "What the heck is that?" he remembers asking. In June 1944 he landed on Utah Beach, 10 days before his 19th birthday, and spent the next 11 months gathering and burying American soldiers as the war moved across Europe.

In Episode 115 of Documentary First, the first of five conversations with George, host Christian Taylor and co-hosts Josh Lindsay and Jason Rugg sit down with the veteran, then 95. He starts with his childhood in Boston, a family of 10 children, and an early fear of death that began at his little cousin's funeral. He then tells how he joined the 607th Graves Registration Company as a replacement, and how the company lost 18 men in Exercise Tiger, the secret D-Day rehearsal off Slapton Sands.

George describes crossing the Channel under fire, wading ashore when his landing craft could not find a place to land, and starting temporary cemeteries in Normandy, including at Sainte-Mère-Église, Blosville and Saint-Lô. He talks about breaking down two weeks in, the lieutenant who sent him back to work, and why only about 40% of the Americans buried in Europe during the war are still there. He closes with his trip home in January 1946, to a Christmas tree his mother had kept up for him.

In this episode, you’ll learn

• How a boy from Boston who wanted to fly fighter planes ended up in a graves registration company at 18
• What happened to the 607th Graves Registration Company in Exercise Tiger, and why the survivors were kept apart
• How the English family George was billeted with before D-Day became a friendship across five generations
• What crossing the Channel under fire and wading ashore on Utah Beach was like
• How his company started the first temporary cemeteries in Normandy and recovered four generals
• What it cost a 19-year-old to handle the dead every day, and the day a lieutenant sent him back to work
• Why only about 40% of the Americans buried in Europe during the war remain there
• Why the markers in American military cemeteries show no date of birth

Questions and answers

What did graves registration units do in World War II?

Graves registration companies gathered and buried American soldiers who died in combat. George Ciampa's unit, the 607th Graves Registration Company, landed in Normandy in June 1944, picked up paratroopers who had drowned in the Channel, and started temporary cemeteries, including two of the three at Sainte-Mère-Église. George spent 11 months with the company and had only one day off.

What was Exercise Tiger?

Exercise Tiger was a rehearsal for the D-Day landings off Slapton Sands, England, on April 28, 1944. George Ciampa says four LSTs were practicing a landing when a German E-boat sank three of them, and almost 800 men were killed, including 18 from his 607th Graves Registration Company. The five men from his company who survived were held in a barbed wire camp to keep the invasion plans secret.

What was it like to land on Utah Beach in 1944?

George Ciampa remembers German 88s screaming over his ship and seeing a tanker blow up, with bodies and debris in the water. He weighed 112 to 115 pounds and carried a pack he believes weighed more than he did down a rope ladder into a Higgins boat. The boat turned back twice looking for a place to land among the German obstacles, so his unit had to wade ashore. "Anybody who said they weren't scared is a damn liar or they're crazy," he says.

Why were most American soldiers who died in Europe in WWII sent home?

George Ciampa explains that after permanent cemeteries were built in 1947, the remains of soldiers buried anywhere in Europe were disinterred. On average 60 percent went home, when the next of kin asked for them to be sent to any cemetery they chose at no cost, and 40 percent stayed. The temporary cemetery at Henri-Chapelle held 17,300, and the permanent cemetery there holds just under 8,000.

What is missing from the markers in American military cemeteries in Europe?

George Ciampa points out that the white marble markers give a soldier's name, rank, unit and state, and the date of death, but no date of birth. He did not notice it until he went back to Normandy 50 years later. The date of death, he adds, is often approximated.

Chapters

• 0:00 Born in Boston, One of 10 Children
• 4:06 From Aircraft Plant to Graves Registration
• 9:05 Exercise Tiger and an English Family
• 13:47 Crossing the Channel Under Fire
• 17:03 Wading Ashore on Utah Beach
• 22:00 Temporary Cemeteries and a Night in Paris
• 26:46 Breaking Down and the Price of Freedom
• 30:37 The Bulge and the 40% Who Stayed
• 37:32 Coming Home to a Christmas Tree in January

About the guest

George Ciampa (1925-2024) was a World War II veteran and documentary filmmaker. He was born in Boston on June 16, 1925, one of 10 children of Italian immigrants, grew up in Winthrop, Massachusetts, and moved with his family to California in 1934. After high school he worked at Douglas Aircraft on Navy SBD dive bombers before he was drafted in November 1943. He served with the 607th Graves Registration Company from Normandy through the Battle of the Bulge, then spent seven months in the army of occupation in Germany, and was discharged in January 1946. He later worked for the Los Angeles Times for 26 years, raised his two children after his first wife died in 1981, and made documentaries including Let Freedom Ring and America's Finest Ambassadors, about the friendships between American soldiers and children in postwar Germany. He spoke to schoolchildren about what he called the high price of freedom. George Ciampa died on January 3, 2024, at the age of 98.

More from this series

This is the first of five Documentary First conversations with George Ciampa. Continue with Battle of the Bulge Through a WWII Veteran's Eyes: George Ciampa and The War Ends, Then Margot: George Ciampa's Road Home. Parts 4 and 5 cover Margot again, his life after the war, and his films. After his death, Christian remembered him in Goodbye, George: Remembering WWII Veteran George Ciampa. All of George's episodes are gathered on the George Ciampa, WWII veteran page.

About Documentary First

For people who make documentaries and people who love them. Discover how documentaries actually get made, paid for and seen with filmmaker Christian Taylor. Plus DocuView Deja View, where every guest recommends a documentary worth watching. One week, a long-form conversation about a guest's journey, projects and lessons; the next, The Deep Dive, Christian's short solo reflection on one idea from that conversation. Guests have included Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy. Christian directed the award-winning documentary The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Nearly 300 conversations. Listen Notes top 5% worldwide. 4.8 on Apple Podcasts. New episodes every week. Follow the show · About the podcast · Support the show on Patreon

Resources mentioned

• Let Freedom Ring, George Ciampa's website

Full transcript

Born in Boston, One of 10 Children

George Ciampa: Hello, my name is George Ciampa. I'm a first generation Italian. My parents came from Italy and I'm one of 10. It's me and my younger sister, we're the lone survivors now. And the rest are gone, heaven, I guess, wherever that might be. I've been one of those stars, probably. Anyway, I want to tell you something quickly about what happened to me. I was born in Boston on June 16th, 1925. Lived in Winthrop, which is a suburb of Boston, near the ocean.

And I started the first grade when I was 5 years old because in Boston, they had no kindergarten then, and you had to have your tonsils and adenoids removed before you could go to school, which I did at home. Two doctors with the ether bag. And anyway, I remember that distinctly. I want to tell you about something when I was 5 years old. My little cousin Teresa, who was 8 years old, died of a heart defect. And it was a tough time for me and for everybody, of course. But I remember at the gravesite, and this is the important thing I want to tell you about, my mother was standing next to me.

She had lost her voice before the funeral. And at the time they were lowering the casket in the grave, my mother screamed, "Teresa!" real loud. And my little 5-year-old, I was frightened. And I've never forgotten that. In fact, I can visualize that right now. And so that, and then another situation with my grandfather, where they had the wakes in the homes, and I remember that distinctly.

And being from an Italian family, like everybody's in the kitchen speaking Italian, English, laughing, crying, eating, smoking. And my grandfather's in an open casket in the bay window. And I hate bay windows now. And my wife can tell you about that, but that's another story. But anyway, I remember that. I was a bewildered little boy standing there looking at my grandfather. And after that I thought I was dying. So my mother would have to take me to the doctor with a stethoscope on my chest. My heart was beating so fine. I was just a nervous kid.

We left Boston in 1934 in a '32 Chevrolet. This is in the Depression. And there's seven children and my mother and father in the car. Three others: one was married, one was living in California, the other one was staying with my sister who got married. So seven of us and my mother and father. My father drove. My brother who was 17 and another brother who was 20 drove. They drove day and night, because they didn't want to hear me. I want to ask you guys a question. If you're married and you have kids, what did your kids say to you before you got to your destination? Are we there yet? I originated that. When are we going to get there? Are we there yet? I drove everybody crazy.

They drove day and night. No motels, no restaurants. So we pulled the flatbed trailer. And my mother had one of these little stoves, a Bunsen burner, where she heated home canned goods that were in the flatbed trailer. Anyway, took us a week to get to California where we were going. Okay, enough for that. Just wanted to give you that background.

Now, let's go ahead to: I graduated from high school the same day I was 17, because I started school when I was five, remember? No kindergarten in Boston. Had to start first grade. So anyway, being that young in the first grade, I was 17 the day I graduated, which was on my birthday, June 16th, 1942.

From Aircraft Plant to Graves Registration

I went to work in Douglas Aircraft. It was building Navy dive bombers, SBD dive bombers, that operated from aircraft carriers. My job was to help get the planes out on the tarmac and put final touches in the cockpit. So, I'd sit in the cockpit and do all the final things that'd be done there, and I thought, my gosh, it'd be great to fly one of these. I had a brother in the Air Corps and a brother in the Air Corps. And when they were home on leave, I'd watch them, and I'd look at other guys in the Air Corps that walked with a swagger. Their hats tilted. The girls were crazy about these guys, and I thought, that's what I want to do.

So, I went to take the test for air cadet and I flunked it twice. My eyes were 20/22 and you had to have perfect vision, 20/20. And so, the doctor said to me, "Well, just think, George, maybe if you'd gotten in the Air Corps, you might get killed." I wasn't even thinking about death at that point. I just thought of the glory of it all, being in the Air Corps. And so, anyway, I got drafted shortly after I turned 18. This whole year I was 17, working on those airplanes.

So, they sent me to Cheyenne, Wyoming, and they put me in the 610th Graves Registration Company. And I said, "What the heck is that? What's Graves? What does that mean? I don't want anything to do with Graves." So, the only training we had was infantry basic training, in the cold weather in Cheyenne, Wyoming. This is November. I was drafted in November of '43. So, it was November, December, January, February, March, and left there in April.

Let me tell you what happened. Right next to us was an Air Corps base, Fort Warren. And one day guys came over because they were recruiting for pilots. And this is only 3 months before D-Day. And so, we were losing a lot of pilots. And your bombers didn't even have fighter pilots to protect them during that time. So, when a bomber went down, 10 guys went down with it. So, I wanted to be a fighter pilot.

But anyway, what happened was a whole lot of the guys gathered around them to sign up. Guys who wanted to get out of the outfits that they were in. And so, I didn't think about talking to my company commander. I just said, "Wait a minute. You telling me that you lowered the eye requirements to 20/30 with no glasses?" "Yeah, yep, that's the deal." "I'm ready. Let's go." So, I took all the tests. I passed everything. Physical, eye test. Had to write home to teachers that knew me, you know, for letters of recommendation, whatever you want to call it.

Anyway, my company commander found out about it and he blew his top, and he sent me home on furlough. I came back, and he put me into the 607th Graves Registration. Remember, I was in the 610th. The 610th was a bunch of young guys. The 607th, everybody was older than I was. And I was a replacement for one person that they needed. And they were going overseas right away. So, I was that replacement.

On the way overseas, the guys are all kidding me. "Don't worry, Chappie. They'll turn the ship around, take you home. President Roosevelt said no 18-year-old will set foot on foreign soil." I had a cousin that was 17 killed in the Navy before that. So anyway, and I want to say one other thing about the Air Corps dropping the eye requirements to 20/30, no glasses. Nobody knows about that. Nobody. I can tell you, I don't know how you can ever find out, but that's the truth. That's what happened. That's how they accepted me. So, I didn't get to get in the Air Corps. I was in Graves Registration.

We landed in England in April of '44. And we had four platoons and headquarters that made up 124 guys. Enlisted men and officers. The first, second, third, and fourth platoon and headquarters platoon. So, we were in Bristol. They broke up our company into platoons. For some reason. I don't know why, but they did. I was in Bristol. And while we were there, our company commander got us together and...

Exercise Tiger and an English Family

We just lost 18 of our guys in Exercise Tiger. It was an exercise off the coast of England, Slapton Sands. You can read about it. Get the book Exercise Tiger. You'll see in the index in the back, you'll see the 607th Graves Registration Company. All the guys that were killed, 18. Our first lieutenant, first sergeant, sergeants, corporals. Five privates lived. And it was a very secretive thing. I won't go into it. It takes up too much time. But get the book and you'll find out all about what happened, because there were almost 800 guys killed. There were four LSTs out there practicing a landing. I'll just tell you a little bit.

And a German E-boat sunk three of them. And one of our platoons, the first platoon, was on one of the ones that was sunk. Never recovered their bodies. Eisenhower put out a directive to find the survivors, because they had maps on them where the invasion would be. And the five guys that were survivors were put in a concentration camp, practically, a barbed wire camp, to keep their mouths shut. This was very secretive for several years. And nothing ever got out.

There's commemorations that happen over there every year in April. April 28th is when this happened. Just before the invasion. And a Laurie Bolton was a niece of one of the fellows who was killed, Lewis Bolton, who was a sergeant, 24 years old. She was not yet born, but she goes over there every year for that commemoration of Exercise Tiger. So, enough of that.

So, now it's our turn to get out of Bristol and go to Land's End and St. Austell, which is a little village close to the ports, Falmouth, I remember that name. Portsmouth, I think, was the other one. Anyway, we're in that area. I don't remember how long. It was probably a week, maybe longer. I and another fellow who has passed away, Gus Satsos, who lived in Michigan, really great guy. He and I were buddies, and he and I were billeted in this house with this English couple, Mom and Pop Nibon. And we were only there to sleep.

And I took my wife and kids there 50 years later. 50 years later, we saw the lady that lived next door, who was 30, and her little daughter was two when we were there. And I saw them again when she was 80, and her daughter was 52. And there's a long story attached to that, because after Mom died, I kept in touch with her and then her daughter, Ursula. She lived in England. The 50th anniversary was the first time I went back to Normandy. And we saw Ursula and her husband. And I kept in touch with Ursula until she died.

And then after that, let me tell you one thing. We had dinner at her house, at the daughter's house, Ursula. Looked at the tablecloth, and it was an embroidered tablecloth, a long one. And the table was real long. And so Ursula said, "One of Mom's boys gave that to her." I said, "Oh my god, that was my mother." Because they communicated, because we couldn't write home. Everything was censored, and you couldn't even write. So, she wrote home to my mother to tell her I was okay and everything. And so they kept in touch with each other.

But anyway, Ursula and I kept in touch with each other until she died. But I met her son, who lives in Ipswich, England. And then later on met his daughter. And her daughter has a couple of kids. So, there's five generations of Brits that I became acquainted with because of staying in that house, right close to the port where we were eventually going to disembark from. Two of the guys that stayed in that house before me and Gus were on the LST that was sunk. And she told us about the two of them. And she said one of the boys was Catholic, and she'd go light candles in the local church every day. And so anyway, it's a very impressive story, and it's a story in itself.

Crossing the Channel Under Fire

So let me tell you from there. Okay, our turn to disembark. And we get on the ship and we're sailing. I met a Navy gunner, same age as I was. He showed me his quarters. And one day we hit a mine cable. It was no big deal, because the ship just rocked a little bit and the mine was off maybe 75 yards. And that was nothing, during the day. That night we were all sleeping in the hold. You know, that's where they keep equipment usually. It was just last Sunday. Anyway, we were sleeping in the hold. In the middle of the night, a huge explosion. And the ship was rocking in and out of the water.

And we all scrambled up on deck to see what happened. It was dark. And what we eventually found out is the Navy gunner that I had met that day shot down a German torpedo plane that dropped the torpedo. And then he shot the plane down, and I don't know what caused the explosion, but apparently between the torpedo exploding and the torpedo plane shot down, this is what happened. So I owed my life to that guy that shot the plane down with the torpedo. So anyway, we got over that.

Now we get to thousands of ships. And it's unbelievable. You've heard them describe it. I mean, as far as you could see there's ships. There's claims 4,000 ships were sunk. I have a plaque on my wall in Torrance that reproduces the front page of the LA Times. I worked for the LA Times, by the way, much later than that. My last job, I had it for 26 years. But I did a plaque of D-Day, and they said 4,000 ships. But since then I've heard 5,000 ships. So, I don't know. Nobody has really come to a conclusion how many ships were out there, I guess, but there were at least 4,000 ships out there.

So, we're on one of them, and we're broadside to shore. Now, imagine this. We can hear the 88s from the German artillery on shore going over us, hitting ships. Saw a tanker blow up, bodies, debris in the water everywhere. We all got on the side of the ship opposite the shore, up against the bulkhead, to hope that we get some protection, because we were thinking we're going to get hit anytime. You could hear, they call these screaming mimis, this artillery, and you could hear them scream over you. And you could see ships getting hit.

And the ship was tilted in the water, because all of the weight of the guys is on the opposite side of the ship from the shore. Now, why they anchored there like that, I don't know, because it made a big target. The only thing I can think of is if we were pointed in toward the shore, it's not as big a target, in my opinion. And so, that's why they were broadside.

Wading Ashore on Utah Beach

Also, when we got off the ship, the rope ladders were on that side. Again, away from the sight of whoever's firing the 88s. And so it seemed like hours. I don't know how long it was really before we got off. We went down the rope ladder. I weighed between 112 and 115 pounds, without exaggeration. What I was carrying on my back weighed more than that, I'm sure. I didn't have time to weigh it. But anyway, I'll tell you, it was very frightening going down the rope ladder and getting into a Higgins boat. That's the small LCI, landing craft, not the LST, which is the larger one.

So, we headed in to the shore, listening to the 88s singing over us, thought we're going to get hit anytime. We went in, turned around, came back out. Went in again, turned around, came back out. And I wondered for years why we did that. And finally learned the reason for doing that is not because they're afraid of getting hit, because their orders are to go in. But the Germans had obstacles in the water. I can't think of the name right now, what they call those things. Hedgehogs. Yeah. Anyway, there's mines attached to them, for any of the guys wading in to touch them. But the guy driving that was looking for a place to land.

And the third attempt, yeah, he couldn't find a place to land. That's why we had to wade ashore. You've seen pictures of that. So, I'll tell you one thing. I was scared to death. Anybody who said they weren't scared is a damn liar or they're crazy. Maybe both. But our job was to gather the dead. Now, in those days we were segregated from the black, I call them black Americans. I don't call them African Americans. They're black Americans. And their job was to dig graves.

And the first thing we did is pick up paratroopers that landed in the Channel in error. You know, a lot of mistakes are made in wars, and the way I described that landing, the whole mess there, it was organized confusion, in my 18-year-old mind. I was 18. I turned 19 10 days later. And I was 19 during the rest of the war. And I turned 20 in June, right after the end of the war in Europe, which was in May, May 8th, 1945, and I turned 20 on June 16th, 1945.

Christian Taylor: Can I clarify something?

George: Yeah.

Christian: So, I just want to make sure, it's my understanding you landed on Utah Beach, which is...

George: Got to that yet.

Christian: Yeah. So, just talk about, Utah Beach was a very different story than Omaha Beach for anybody that understands World War II. And if you don't know the difference between Utah and Omaha, I'll just tell you very quickly, there was one big thing that made a difference, and that was Dick Winters and Easy Company, the 101st Airborne Division, who took out the gun emplacements at Brécourt Manor. And that story is in our film. If you haven't seen our film, please make sure you pay attention to that. Thankfully, because that was done, George is probably here today, as are a whole lot of other soldiers that landed on Utah Beach.

George: Okay, well, yeah. And of course the Rangers were at Omaha, and I'll tell you more about that later if we have time. But anyway, half of our company went to Omaha Beach. The other half of us went to Utah Beach. And I learned later what Omaha was like, and I'm glad we weren't there, but I'll tell you what, Utah was bad enough for me. And I wouldn't want to go through it again, I'll tell you that.

And so, because the paratroopers were drowned when they hit the water, with all the equipment they had on and the parachutes come over them, we picked them up and buried them in their parachutes. And we had these black Americans I told you about that dug the graves, but just for a short time. Because, you know, one thing, I got to say this, one thing about the D-Day landing: it was bad. Terrible. We lost a lot of guys. But the worst part of it was like a couple of days. And of course there was more fighting going inland.

Temporary Cemeteries and a Night in Paris

Our job was initially temporary cemeteries. We initiated two of the three cemeteries at Sainte-Mère-Église. And you and I talked about it, Christian, I keep wanting to call you Michelle. Christian, we talked about the first general who was killed in Normandy, remember? Pratt?

Christian: Teddy Roosevelt Jr.?

George: No, no, Pratt.

Christian: Oh, Pratt, General Pratt. Yes, yes, yes.

George: Glider guys. General Pratt, I think he was 52 years old, and he volunteered to go with the glider guys. He didn't have to. He was killed. The pilot, I think he had an Irish name, I can't remember. I want to say Ryan, but I don't think it was Ryan, something like that. But anyway, he lived. But our company picked him up. We figured he and McNair and Roosevelt, we picked up four generals.

But getting back to the beach, Utah Beach, we soon had prisoners digging the graves. And then we got off of Normandy Beach and went to three or four other cemeteries in Normandy. I can remember Sainte-Mère-Église in particular, and I think Marigny. I think the other one, I can't think of it right this minute, but Blosville. There was the Blosville Cemetery. Blosville. And then Saint-Lô. And I remember Saint-Lô in particular, because that's where General McNair was killed, from our friendly fire, from the bombing of Saint-Lô.

And we watched Patton, all his tanks rolling past us. They came in through the port of Cherbourg. And you can say what you want to say about Patton. I equate Patton with Trump. They both have the same mentalities, same persona. But you know what? Patton helped win the war in Europe. He was not a very good guy in some instances. You know, he slapped the soldier. You know about that, probably. He thought he was reincarnated to do what he did. But he was a big asset, I'll tell you, to our side.

And so anyway, we got out of Saint-Lô, went down through Paris, big celebration in Paris. And it was like the end of the war. And so we had a temporary cemetery about 20 miles out of Paris. And one day, the only day off I had in 11 months, was in Paris. And they took us by truck into Paris, dumped us off at the Bastille Tower, said, "Be back here at 6:00." That was a joke. Didn't get dark till 11:00.

And my buddy Jim Canavaras, who was quite a bit older than I was, you know, at that point I was 19 and he was like 32. And we're walking along in Paris. And he sees a sign at the top of a building. It was in Greek. And he could speak Greek. He said, "Oh my god, there's Greek there. Let's go." So we go there. It's a Greek beauty shop. They wouldn't let us go. We had to have dinner, drinks. By the time I got out of there, we were smashed.

So here we are walking down a street in Paris. And we're looking for N19, which is a route to get back to where we wanted to go. And we couldn't find it. Well, a Free French Interior, FFI, car pulled up next to where we were. And two guys jumped out, and two beautiful women. And one of the gals took me by the arm. The other one took my buddy by the arm. And we hit saloons all along, shops, so to say, there. And at the end of that, there was no way we could find our way back.

We ran across a couple of GIs. Told them our plight. And they said, "Why don't you come and stay with us?" They're staying at the University of Paris. And so we did. Slept on the floor there at night. So we didn't get back. And we were missing. And so when they had roll call, somebody answered my name for me. Nobody answered Jim Canavaras's name. So they put him on cemetery detail for a week, digging graves. And by that time, you know, we had German prisoners digging graves, because we had them, like I said, a couple of days after leaving Normandy.

Breaking Down and the Price of Freedom

What I was going to say, and I got off on a tangent, was that Normandy was very bad. But you know what? The Battle of the Bulge was worse. First of all, it was worse because thousands more died there. In Normandy, you had the heat and a stench, the stench of the dead bodies getting in your clothes. You're sleeping in your clothes in the foxhole. You don't have a change of clothes. You got everything on, your shoes, your socks, everything. And spitting and spitting, your mouth is dry. And of course looking at the dead bodies.

Remember I said I had a big fear of death as a little boy? And this is what I had to do. And I did it like a robot. While I was still in Normandy, I broke down, about 2 weeks later. And a lieutenant pulled out his .45 and stuck it in my ribs. And he says, "Get your ass back out there and suck it up." You know, you weren't a baby in that war. I don't know about other wars, because I was only in one, but I'll tell you, nobody felt sorry for you. So, I worked like a robot.

It's hard for me to look at faces. And especially when you're looking at 18, 19, 20-year-old guys your age, you know. And all shapes and forms. But the worst thing I ever saw was a tanker, you know, apparently getting out of his tank, and it was on fire. It was just a ball of charcoal on the ground next to the tank. So, you know, it's not pretty. I talk to kids in the schools all the time, and I don't talk to them about this. I talk to them about the high price of freedom. That's my thing, the high price of freedom. My website is www.letfreedomringforall.

We weren't just doing it for ourselves, we were doing it for the people over there. In fact, I'm getting ahead of my story, but I did a film. I did documentaries. I did one of them in Germany about the German kids that were orphans, and how they were hungry and going through garbage cans for food, and they were looking for love and attention. And I was in the army of occupation after the war for 7 months. So I look at these kids, they look just like our kids. And so I did a film about that. One of my films, here it is, it's called...

Off camera: You have your boxes of films right in front of you.

George: Thank you very much. It's called America's Finest Ambassadors. You see me there?

Christian: Yep.

George: Me? I had just turned 20. You see that little girl? A 2-year-old German girl. You see the jeeps down there?

Christian: Yep.

George: I'm going to tell you about the jeeps later. I damn near got court-martialed. I'll tell you about that later if we have time. Anyway, yeah, I have them all right here. But America's finest ambassadors are our armed forces, because in every war since World War I, men and women of the armed forces befriended kids of the allies and the enemy, because after all, they're kids. They're not our enemy. And these kids are hungry, forlorn, and oh my god, I mean, I get chills in my back just thinking about these kids. And you just couldn't resist them. They're going in the garbage cans, so we're giving them food, love, and attention. And they were in my jeep and loved it. They couldn't get in the German army jeeps and vehicles, but they did ours.

The Bulge and the 40% Who Stayed

So, anyway, I know I got ahead of myself, but anyway, the Battle of the Bulge was very bad. First of all, the good thing about it is you didn't get the stench, because it's the coldest winter in 30 years. The Battle of the Bulge went on from December 16th of '44 to January 25th of '45. It went on for a month. And thousands of guys were getting killed. 40,000 guys had frostbitten feet. I mean, I think it was like 30° below. It was below zero. It was so far below zero you couldn't believe it. It was so damn cold. So, we lost a lot of guys there. More than Normandy. That's why I say it was worse than Normandy, in that sense.

Christian: You mean worse in the Bulge.

George: Yeah, worse in the Bulge, yeah. And you know, all of us in Normandy were survivors, really. All of us. I mean, there's not just a handful of guys that can talk about how rough it was for them. It was rough for everybody. You didn't know if you're going to get killed the next moment. I was scared to death. I didn't want to drown, number one. I couldn't swim, number two; it wouldn't help you. And number three, not number three, but number one, I felt that if I died, my Italian mother would die. She was very emotional. You learn from that at the graveside of my little cousin.

So those things all ran through your mind. I can't get killed. I can't get killed. Kind of reminds me of some of these guys coming back from Iraq. I heard one guy talking about, you know, he lost an arm and leg and everything. He says, "If I can just keep breathing, I'll get back to my wife." You know, you think about things like that. At least some of us did.

But anyway, Battle of the Bulge. We had 17,300 buried in a temporary cemetery at Henri-Chapelle. Now, it's right under 8,000, 7,992 I think it is. But 17,300, what happened to those 17,300 heroes that are buried there? Well, after the war, 2 years later, 1947, permanent cemeteries were built. Any soldier buried in a grave anywhere in Europe during that war, the remains were disinterred and put in lined caskets.

And so, with that cemetery, 17,300, the average is that 60% of them went home in 1947, when the next of kin requested the remains to be sent home to any cemetery they chose, at no cost to them. The other 40% remained there. So, when you guys see these emails, like I get all the time, showing cemeteries over there and how many are buried in each cemetery, keep in mind that only represents 40% of what was there.

Now, the one at Normandy, for example, of 10,000, those bodies came from these temporary cemeteries where we buried these guys initially. When they were disinterred, they were sent to the Normandy cemetery, which is the closest permanent one to those temporary cemeteries. So, the average is 60% went home, 40% stayed. When you see, you know, I write back to these people and say, "You know, thank you for saying that, but let me explain something to you." And then I go into this dissertation, how that only represents 40%.

The other thing that really bothers me, before we get off on the things that I forget, and this is why I go off on tangents: you look at the marble tombstones, markers, whatever you want to call them. You look at those beautiful white marble tombstones. Have you guys seen them?

Christian: Oh, yeah.

George: Okay. Okay. Don't say anything, Christian. What do you read on them? Besides the soldier's name, do you recall what you read on there? You read their name, their rank, what unit they were in, and what state they came from. What else do you see there? Do you see their date of birth? No. And I didn't know that until I went back 50 years later with the lady you saw here a while ago. She was my fiancée, because my late wife died in 1981, when I had two children. Girl 11, boy 10. And my wife was ill for 5 years with lymphoma, when the kids were 4 and 5.

I'm more proud of raising them than anything I've done. For 10 years before they got to college, both of them. First my daughter and then my son. Anyway, my son went to Notre Dame and my daughter went to the University of San Diego, which is a private school. And me, with one salary, I put my kids through college. I paid for everything. And more. But anyway, that's a tangent. I'll get off of that and get back to where I was, if I can remember where I was.

Christian: Actually, what I'd like to do right now is, unfortunately we have run out of time for today. And it is very unfortunate, because it is just amazing, whether you go off on tangents or not, it doesn't matter. It's amazing to hear your memories. And I'm going to get emotional when I share this with you, but there are very few people that have the firsthand accounts that you have. And you do have such a clear memory, and you are able to walk us through what those days were like. And only someone like you who's been there can understand the toll that it took on those that were there. And I can't thank you enough for the time that you've given us today. And I really would like to have you come back, because we're only at the Battle of the Bulge and we haven't even gotten to ask any questions yet.

George: Yeah, I've got a lot more. I got a lot more to tell you. You know what? I'm going to give you the ending now, okay?

Coming Home to a Christmas Tree in January

All right, quickly, the ending is: I got out of the service on January 13th, 1946, after Christmas. We didn't make it for Christmas. It's another story in itself, about that missing Christmas, okay? But anyway, here's the way I felt. I got discharged four days later, on the 17th of January, and I hitchhiked home. I was carrying a duffel bag with all the stuff they let us keep, and I'm walking down my street toward my house, crying. You know, here I am, all these other guys are gone. No girlfriend, no wife, no kids.

And of course when I'm walking down the street now, I mean, a young man. I just turned, I'm 20 and a half. Couldn't buy a drink in California. And so that's what I thought about. And I got home, knocked on the door. And of course, my mother gave me a big bear hug, and the Christmas tree was still up on the 17th of January. So, that's all I can tell you right now.

Christian: Wow. I have chills. I am just overwhelmed by your generosity to share your memories. I am so glad you made it home. And who better than you to tell stories, when you're 81, about what was done in Europe to keep us all free. And I can't wait. I do want you to know we will start back at the Battle of the Bulge. Hopefully, you can come back next week. And then after we get through the war, we can talk about your films. Was Let Freedom Ring the very first film that you did?

George: Yeah, that's what, when I was 81. This is the second one I did, in France. Those guys that are with me there are dead now. They all were in the First Division. And all three of them, one of them just died recently at 90. Oh, 100. Excuse me, he just turned 100 and died.

Christian: Wow.

George: He was 90.

Christian: We want to definitely hear about that next week. Hopefully, you can come back next Wednesday when we record. Everybody can find George on letfreedomringforall.org. Correct?

George: Yeah.

Christian: So, that's his website. You can also look him up on IMDb to find out more. We will have him back to hear more about the war and then about his filmmaking career. George, it's been wonderful to have you. Josh or Jason, do you have anything to say real quick before we wrap up?

Jason Rugg: Oh, just thank you, George, for being on here. I look forward to having you back.

George: Thank you.

Josh Lindsay: Yeah, thank you so much. This was really moving.

George: Yeah, thank you. Well, thank you guys for listening. I could tell you were interested. I could tell they are. I could tell I didn't bore you.

Christian: You did not at all.

George: You didn't fall asleep.

Christian: Not at all. Not at all.

George: As I said, there's no date of birth on the markers, only the date of death, which is approximated a lot, as I know. So, I'll let you go.

Christian: All right. Thank you, everybody. Josh, why don't you take us out?

Josh: Okay, well, hey everyone. I hope you enjoyed that, and look forward to the next time we're with George. Okay. Thank you for listening to Documentary First, where we believe everyone has a story to tell and you can be the one to tell it.

Christian: Yes, you can. Bye, everybody.

George: Thank you. Bye.