How Greg Fitzpatrick Became a Stuntman, Part 1

Documentary First, Episode 249 · with Greg Fitzpatrick, stuntman and actor · 51 minutes · April 10, 2025

Listen: Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all apps · Watch: YouTube · Read: Full transcript

How does someone become a Hollywood stuntman?

Greg Fitzpatrick never planned on stunts. He studied English, started law school, quit after a semester and went into acting, first in New York and then in Los Angeles. He has since doubled Ben Stiller for more than 20 years, on films including Zoolander 2, Tropic Thunder and the Night at the Museum series, doubled Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man, and won two World Stunt Awards.

In Episode 249 of Documentary First, host Christian Taylor, who has known Greg since high school, talks with him about the long road there: temp jobs, bartending and theater in Los Angeles, the open audition at the Universal Studios Wild West stunt show where he did his first high fall, and the research and nerve that won him the job doubling Ben Stiller. Christian stops to point out what his story teaches any filmmaker: research, preparation, doing what it takes and taking a risk.

Greg also talks about the humbling side of stunt work, the injuries and the cleanup after the big moments, and about directing his comedy series Stunted, loosely based on his life. Christian explains why a stuntman belongs on a documentary podcast: her own film used reenactments that called for acting, stunt work and directing. The conversation runs long enough that Christian invites Greg back for a second part on working with actors and stunt people.

In this episode, you’ll learn

  • Why Greg Fitzpatrick left law school after one semester to pursue acting in New York and Los Angeles
  • How he studied the Meisner technique and Shakespeare with Lynn Redgrave, and did theater that made the LA Times pick of the week
  • Why Greg believes building a community of like-minded people matters as much as talent
  • How an open audition at the Universal Studios Wild West stunt show, and a first-ever high fall, started his stunt career
  • How research, preparation and one bold step won him the job doubling Ben Stiller
  • The two stunts behind his World Stunt Awards, in Starsky & Hutch and Iron Man
  • Why stunt work is more humbling and more dangerous than it looks, and how that became his series Stunted
  • What Greg learned about directing from watching Ben Stiller, and why the edit is the final draft

Questions and answers

How did Greg Fitzpatrick become a stuntman?

Greg Fitzpatrick left law school after one semester to act, moved to Los Angeles and paid the bills with temp work, bartending, personal training and construction. He saw an audition for the Wild West stunt show at Universal Studios that said stunt work was a plus but not necessary. The final physical test was a face-off high fall from a mini trampoline, something he had never seen. He watched the two men ahead of him, nailed it on his first try, passed the acting portion and got the job.

How did Greg Fitzpatrick get the job as Ben Stiller's stunt double?

About 22 years before the episode, Greg Fitzpatrick was one of many stunt performers called in to see if he could double Ben Stiller. He asked what Ben's hair looked like, studied videos and photos of him, had a barber cut his hair to match, and pasted a tiny picture of Ben next to his own face on his headshot. In a line of 25 people, he stepped out to talk to the hair person, and when the hair and makeup team asked who looked more like Ben in the face, he pulled out the picture. When Ben Stiller met him the next day, they both burst out laughing and Ben said, “I can live with this.”

What World Stunt Awards has Greg Fitzpatrick won?

Greg Fitzpatrick has won two World Stunt Awards. One, for best high work, was for doubling Ben Stiller in Starsky & Hutch, jumping from a 100-foot building across an alley to a 70-foot building. The other, for hardest hit, was for doubling Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man, in the scene where Robert's character tests the boots of his Iron Man suit for the first time and does a backflip into a wall.

Is being a stuntman as glamorous as it looks?

Not according to Greg Fitzpatrick. After a big stunt he still has to clean up the set and haul the pads, and stunt performers miss the red carpet, the awards and the actor pay while risking injuries that send them to the emergency room. Most stunts are practical, not CGI, and when he is hurt and asked for another take, the answer is yes. That other side of the job inspired his comedy series Stunted.

Why should documentary filmmakers learn from a stuntman?

Christian Taylor used many reenactments in her documentary, so acting, stunt work and directing all came into play. Greg Fitzpatrick, who has worked as an actor, stuntman and director, learned directing by watching Ben Stiller and Shawn Levy on set. He repeats Ben Stiller's advice that the edit is the final draft of the film. Christian asked him to return to share practical tips on working with actors and stunt people.

Chapters

  • 0:00 Introduction to Documentary Filmmaking and Guest Introduction
  • 2:59 The Life of a Stuntman: Behind the Scenes
  • 6:05 The Journey to Acting: From Law School to Hollywood
  • 9:02 Theater and Acting: Building a Foundation
  • 12:02 The Struggles of an Actor: Finding a Footing in LA
  • 15:06 Networking and Community in the Film Industry
  • 17:59 The Breakthrough: Becoming a Stunt Performer
  • 20:51 Transitioning from Stunts to Acting
  • 23:55 The Hustle: Balancing Jobs and Passion
  • 27:09 Preparing for the Role: Doubling for Ben Stiller
  • 27:43 The Journey Begins: From Awareness to Opportunity
  • 30:09 Seizing the Moment: The Importance of Preparation
  • 32:52 The Humbling Experience of Stunt Work
  • 35:44 The Duality of Stunt Work: Gift and Challenge
  • 39:09 Behind the Scenes: The Reality of Stunt Work
  • 42:34 Directing: Bringing Vision to Life
  • 46:55 Documentary Insights: Learning from Experience
  • 48:25 DocuView Deja View

DocuView Deja View picks

DocuView Deja View picks: Greg recommends Mountain Queen: The Summits of Lhakpa Sherpa (2023, on Netflix), about the first Nepali woman to climb Everest, which she has done 10 times. He calls it the most inspirational story of grit, strength and perseverance you will see: she moved to the United States, raised three kids and had a very tough personal life, and what she overcame outside of climbing is, to Greg, the amazing part. Every guest pick is in one place.

About the guest

Greg Fitzpatrick is an actor, stuntman, writer and director who grew up in Queens and lives in Los Angeles. He was an English major in college and briefly attended law school before turning to acting. He studied the Sanford Meisner technique and Shakespeare with Lynn Redgrave, and performed in Los Angeles theater, including a play that won the LA Drama Critics award for best play of the year. He started in stunts at the Universal Studios Wild West stunt show and has doubled Ben Stiller for more than 20 years, on films including The Secret Life of Walter Mitty, Starsky & Hutch, Tropic Thunder, Zoolander 2 and the Night at the Museum films. He doubled Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man, has worked with Frank Grillo and Tom Lennon, and when the episode was recorded had just doubled Barry Keoghan in Crime 101. He has won two World Stunt Awards. He created, wrote and directs Stunted, a comedy series loosely based on his life, with shorts and mini episodes on his Instagram, YouTube and Vimeo.

More from this series

This is Part 1 of Christian's conversation with Greg Fitzpatrick. At the end, Greg agrees to come back for Part 2, a more practical conversation about how filmmakers can work with actors and stunt people.

About Documentary First

For people who make documentaries and people who love them. Discover how documentaries actually get made, paid for and seen with filmmaker Christian Taylor. Plus DocuView Deja View, where every guest recommends a documentary worth watching. One week, a long-form conversation about a guest's journey, projects and lessons; the next, The Deep Dive, Christian's short solo reflection on one idea from that conversation. Guests have included Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy. Christian directed the award-winning documentary The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Nearly 300 conversations. Listen Notes top 5% worldwide. 4.8 on Apple Podcasts. New episodes every week. Follow the show · About the podcast · Support the show on Patreon

Resources mentioned

This episode is sponsored by Artillery Sports. Use the code DocFirst for 10% off your order.

Full transcript

Introduction to Documentary Filmmaking and Guest Introduction

Christian Taylor: Hey there. If you're a frequent listener to our show, you already know that our show is brought to you by our friends over at Artillery Sports. But what you may not know is that Artillery Sports helps athletes of all types win on and off the course and court. They do this by selling quality, durable, and precision manufactured sports equipment that keeps you in the game, while also using a portion of the profits to provide the funding needed to care for our nation's veterans. With Artillery Sports, it's more than just a game.

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Welcome to Documentary First, an inside look at documentary filmmaking. I'm your host, Christian Taylor, and a documentary filmmaker myself. I don't know where you are today or where you're listening to this, but today is Wednesday, March 5th. I'm in Wheaton, Illinois, and I'm so excited for today's podcast. I'm just going to jump right in. Today it may seem like we're going to go off script, and we're doing something that has absolutely nothing to do with documentary filmmaking, but if you stick with me, you will see that our guest is going to be a great asset to our continuing conversation on how to make great films. Now, before I introduce our guest, I am going to let him kind of introduce himself. So, Heidi, roll the tape.

Trailer for Stunted: How long have you had this headache? Since I was 26. You're joking, right? Maybe 27.

Greg Fitzpatrick: My name is Greg Fitzpatrick, and I'm a professional stuntman. I've spent my career performing alongside some of the most talented actors on the planet, traveling all over the world to work on many of the most iconic films of all time. And from the outside, I bet it looks like I have life pretty much figured out. Yeah, not so much.

Christian: That, everybody, is Greg Fitzpatrick, who's now in the studio with us. Greg, welcome to the show.

Greg: Hi, Christian. Thank you for having me.

Christian: And yeah, so nice to see you. I mean, that's amazing. What was it that we were just listening to?

Greg: Well, that is a show I created. I created a television show and I also turned it into a film. I adapted it into a screenplay, and it's a story loosely based on my life. I'm a professional stuntman. I'm an actor, professional stuntman, and I've worked on some of the most iconic films around. Like, I doubled Robert Downey Jr. in Iron Man. I doubled Ben Stiller for over 20 years on all his films: Zoolander 2, Tropic Thunder, Night at the Museum, the whole Night at the Museum series. And I've won a couple World Stunt Awards, right?

The Life of a Stuntman: Behind the Scenes

Greg: And that all sounds really cool, right? But that's not what the show's about. The show is about the other side of being a stuntman and all the humiliating things that you have to go through, the injuries, the crazy situations you're in. And the show is a kind of behind-the-scenes look at a guy who everyone thinks has it all together. He's got a great career. He's got admiration from his peers, but in reality, he's got nothing figured out. And it's a comedy. It's a funny version of a stuntman's life.

Christian: And so what's this show called?

Greg: It's called Stunted. And of course, that's a double or triple entendre, because the main character, as I said, he looks like he's got everything figured out. But no, his life is stunted. He can't commit to his fiancée, who's the best thing that ever happened to him. He lives with a crazy old man who's like a former legendary stuntman, but now is a little bit loopy, and I take care of him. He lives in my house and he causes all kinds of trouble for me. And my finances aren't in order. My love life's not in order. Nothing's in order. The only thing that looks like it's in order is my career. But you just peek behind the curtain and the guy's kind of a mess.

Christian: Yeah. Well, listen, everybody, if you... Yes. Well, it is funny, and I know this because I have watched this trailer many times. I have peeked behind the scenes of your life. And if you only listen to this little part on the podcast, I encourage you to go to YouTube or to Instagram and see a lot more, learn a lot more about Greg's career, about his life. Greg, I'm going to have you share now where people can find that information, and we're also going to put it in the show notes. So where can people find the rest of that trailer?

Greg: You could find me on Instagram. I have a number of different shorts that I shot that deal with the show, some mini episodes, et cetera. And that's on my Instagram, which is Greg Fitzpatrick, but it's Fitzy Fit TZ1. And you can find it on YouTube, Greg Fitzpatrick, and on Vimeo, Greg Fitzpatrick as well.

Christian: Yeah. All right, everybody, definitely I encourage you to check Greg out. He's a lot of fun. On Instagram for sure, that's the main place you can follow him. Now, I have the great fortune of knowing Greg since he was probably about 15 years old. It's been a long time. We went to high school together. And who knew? Back then I was the one that was actually in the theater and drama program, all into that, while Greg was out there playing football and doing who knows what. I had no idea, Greg, that you were going to be going into this career. I was quite surprised when one day I found out that you were in LA doing all this acting stuff.

The Journey to Acting: From Law School to Hollywood

Christian: So, Stunted is sort of this culmination of your career, but I mean, it took you a lot to get here, and I want to start over at the beginning. And before we do that, I want to explain to my audience why I think it's important that you're here. So you guys, we've been doing this podcast for a long time now. It's like four years. And we started at my career, where we started this documentary film and everybody was following along as I made The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and then we went into following my next film, Heroes of Carentan. And then now we've morphed into following all sorts of filmmakers as they're making their documentary films, in hopes that people who are listening learn a lot about documentary filmmaking.

And we've interviewed cinematographers and editors, and we've interviewed distributors, and we've interviewed just about everybody that has anything to do with documentary filmmaking. We have not interviewed actors or stuntmen, and we have interviewed some directors, but not a ton of them. And I thought, my goodness, we have someone here, my friend Greg Fitzpatrick, who is all three of those things. And he and I talk all the time. We're actually working together right now on both of our careers, trying to really grow them still. I mean, we're not 18 anymore. I mean, we're kind of there in our mind, we feel like we're 18, but we're really not.

But we are still always working as if we are 18 and our careers are just starting, and we've got that fire in our belly. And so we're still working together to figure out how can we accelerate our career. So we've been talking a lot, and I thought, gee, it's really important. You have a lot to offer. You have learned so much in your time in this business. You've studied from the very beginning of your career with some amazing people. You have worked with some of the top people in our industry. You have lived in LA. I mean, you've just learned so much.

I mean, for crying out loud, you've just lived through fires and you've survived. And you've survived strikes, and you've survived... I mean, I don't know how your body has survived all the injuries that you've lived through. So, I mean, to me, you are an incredible testament to resiliency and strength and strength of character. You are an amazing testament of character, I feel, living in an industry where it's very difficult to be a person of character. So that is why I've invited you on our podcast. And I'd like to start from the beginning, where we were back in high school, and you weren't interested, really, at least to my knowledge, in going into this entertainment field. So take me back. How did this interest in acting and everything begin?

Theater and Acting: Building a Foundation

Greg: Well, thank you, Christian, for that introduction. I was always interested in acting. Always. I just never did it. I didn't have the courage to do it. I was self-conscious. Even though maybe I didn't look like I was self-conscious.

Christian: You didn't. Just for the record, I mean, I think you knew this. You were like the coolest guy in school, you know? You were like the most handsome. You were the most athletic. Everybody wanted to be Greg Fitzpatrick or date Greg Fitzpatrick or know Greg Fitzpatrick. Come on. You know that, right?

Greg: That's what my whole show is about. It's about a guy who looks really cool but isn't really cool underneath.

Christian: Yeah.

Greg: So yeah, I guess we have come full circle. Yeah, I always wanted... There's so many things I wanted to do, but I didn't have the courage to try them. And I went to college and I was an English major, and I wrote in college and all that stuff. And then when I left college, I went to law school.

Christian: Wow.

Greg: In other words, I start...

Christian: I never would have pegged you for that.

Greg: I started law school. I should clarify. I started law school and I did a semester, and I realized I don't want to be a lawyer. I don't want to do this. What do I really want to do? It's one of those crossroads in your life where you're like, am I going to take out all these loans for law school? I saw all this money I was going to have to take out. And I'm like, no, I don't want to do this.

Christian: Yeah.

Greg: So I went back to New York City, where I'm from, and I started acting. I got into acting classes. I got headshots. I did all that stuff because that's what I wanted to do. That's what I wanted to do with my life.

Christian: Wow.

Greg: I wanted to be an athlete or I wanted to be an actor. So I went back, got headshots, started acting there, and then I went out to Los Angeles. I came out to California, where I live now, Los Angeles. And when I was a kid, I dreamed of Los Angeles. I dreamed of California. I grew up in Queens. It wasn't beautiful. It wasn't at all. It was cold and dark and wet and horrible. So whenever I saw anything on TV, it was from California. I go, "God, that's paradise." So I want to go to California.

So I came out to California and I started pursuing acting, and I studied the Sanford Meisner technique for a couple years. I studied Shakespeare with Lynn Redgrave. I did a lot of theater.

Christian: Yeah, I know.

Greg: It was great. It was great studying with her. She was awesome. It was a giant class, but if you had a scene, you could bring it up. She would critique you. It was fantastic. And I did a lot of theater in Los Angeles because I grew up thinking theater is acting.

Christian: Theater. Yeah. You were in New York.

Greg: And theater is an actor's medium, and if you want to be a serious actor, you have to do theater. So I did a lot of theater in Los Angeles. Some really good theater. Several of the productions I was in were pick of the week in the LA Times. Had my picture in the LA Times for theater. I did one piece of theater that won the LA Drama Critics Award for the best play of the year, and it was fantastic. And I loved it, but I wasn't earning a living. I wasn't making a lot of money.

The Struggles of an Actor: Finding a Footing in LA

Christian: Well, I mean, come on now, it's hard. Let's be real. It's staggering. You can study like that. You can study like that in New York. You can study like that in Chicago. And you can be really good. You can be really good and you can still not make money at this job.

Greg: Yeah. It's a heartbreaker. Whatever they say about it is true. It is absolutely true. It's brutal. And I ran into a manager, a prominent manager, at a party once, and he did not want to talk about acting at all. He said, "Nobody should do it. It's too hard. Nobody should do it." He's a manager, right? He manages actors. And he said, "Nobody should do it. It's too hard."

And I would never tell someone that. I would never tell them that. I would say if you want to do it, do it. If it's in your soul and in your heart, you have to do it, or you're going to have regrets. And you don't want to have regrets in life. But if you do do it, you have to commit to it and try your best to find other people that you can bond with and create things with, and who are like-minded like you are, so you can move forward. And it's exponential. If you have people around you, you exponentially grow, and you can exponentially grow your business. And that's what acting is. Acting is a business, and you have to be connected. That's it. You have to be connected.

I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I did tons of theater. I was constantly doing stuff. But I didn't know how to create a community that could push me forward, because you need to be pushed forward.

Christian: That's 100% true.

Greg: All the actors, I mean, not all, but many of the actors like DiCaprio and, what's the guy who was in there?

Christian: Well, I think of Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. That is a classic example right there of two people who were friends. They started off when they were young and they were together, and they began building their network, and they just built their network. Then Casey Affleck came in there, and they started just building and building and building, and they became very profitable because they had this network of people and friends. They were friends.

Greg: Yeah. That's true. That's true.

Networking and Community in the Film Industry

Greg: And the younger you start, the better.

Christian: Yeah.

Greg: And the more connected you can be, politically, I have to say, that's the most important thing. As I said, I was studying. I was doing theater, and I was doing good theater. I was working like crazy.

Christian: Yeah. Now let's stop there, because I want to dig into that a little bit. We may have to go into more than one podcast with you, Greg, and I'm going to just say that right up front, because we're already at 15 minutes and we're barely into your career. And so you have so much to talk about, and I really do want our audience to learn from you. I really do. And so we may need to do more than one of these.

And I want to dig in a little deeper here, because I preach this all the time to my audience. And it's not just as an actor. It doesn't matter if you're an actor, a director, a cinematographer, an editor, a colorist. It doesn't matter what you are in filmmaking. If you want to make a living in this business, you have to do it with all your heart. And no matter what job it is, it is hard. It is going to be hard, and there is no guarantee that you are going to make a lot of money or be successful or win an award.

I was watching the Oscars the other night, and I was watching the girl that won the Oscar for best actress, and her name is escaping me at the moment. She won for Anora. And I mean, it's a small little independent film that was financed by a group of people who believed in this film. She had no thought, really, that she really had a chance, like, up against Demi Moore, right? But she won.

Greg: But she won. And sometimes lightning strikes.

Christian: Yes, that is true. Sometimes lightning strikes, but for the most part it does not. And what you see on the Oscars is one-tenth of 1% of actors or writers or directors or editors that make it. And so otherwise you have to figure out how to sustain yourself with a job and do what you're incredibly passionate about, until your career can take off with the thing you're passionate about and you can offset it. So I've heard you talk about how you did that, how you kind of kept your life afloat until you could start making a living with your creative skills.

So let's go back to the beginning, when you moved to LA and you were taking your classes and you talked to your manager. What were you doing to pay your rent, and what were you doing to put gas in your car? And when you moved to LA, how did you go out there? How did you do all that?

The Breakthrough: Becoming a Stunt Performer

Greg: Well, when I came to LA, I had no job. I had barely any money. And I started from the very beginning. I started doing temp work. I was a temp, and it was horrible. I had to work downtown. I lived in the Valley. Had to take a bus. I didn't have a car. And I remember going to do this temp work at an office at a law firm downtown, and I was waiting for a bus, and I was sick, and it started to rain. And I was standing there waiting for the bus in the rain, and I was sick, and I said, I have got to figure out a way to make my life easier, because this sucks. This is horrible.

But I knew nothing. I literally just came out knowing nothing. And I eventually bartended. I became a bartender. I became a personal trainer, because I've always been athletic and worked out. So I was a bartender. I was a personal trainer. I did construction work. I did anything to make a buck. And I lived in a small apartment. And I was sending out headshots. I got an agent. I got a small agent. Blah, blah, blah. I did all that kind of thing trying to move forward. And many people like me have this experience. There's just random things that you do. You do random jobs trying to find a foothold somewhere in life.

And I was bartending. Hated it. Personal training. It doesn't lead you anywhere. One day I'm lying in bed, and I see in a paper called the Drama-Logue, it has all independent stuff in it, had all theater in it. I don't even know if it's still there. Or maybe it was Backstage.

Christian: That's another... That is still there, but it's digital now.

Greg: Publication, you know, that you find out about theater and stuff on there. And I saw an audition for the Wild West stunt show at Universal Studios.

Christian: Right.

Greg: And they had different parameters in there. There were different characters, and one character was my height, my look type of thing, and it said gymnastics, stunt work, a plus, but not necessary. So I'm like, okay, I'm not a stuntman. I'm not a gymnast, but if I can get up in the morning, I'll go. So I got up in the morning and I went, and there were hundreds of people there. And they put us through some certain physical things, physical tasks that I could do. And then they would cut people after each physical task. So it went down and down and down, the number of people.

Transitioning from Stunts to Acting

Greg: And the last physical task was hitting a mini trampoline and doing what's called a face-off. When you do high falls, there's three basic high falls. It's a header, where you go headfirst and you land on your back. A suicide, where you jump feet first and you land on your back. And then a face-off, where you jump out and you go down feet first and then you turn and you land on your back. And they wanted us to do a face-off off a mini. I'd never seen a mini. I didn't know what one was. I never saw a face-off. I never did anything. Didn't know what it was.

I was the third person in line, and they said, "Go." So I'm sitting there, and I asked the guy in front of me, I said, "Hey, bro, what do I do here?" And he goes, "Well, you just jump and you land on your back." But I was talking to him and he was nice, and he kind of calmed me down. His name's Banzai. Still a good friend of mine. He's actually in one of my shorts. Great guy. I've known him all these years. And he's actually got a stunt school out here. So, anybody wants to be a stunt person...

Christian: What's the name of the stunt school? Let's call him out.

Greg: It's the Stunt Performers Academy, I believe it's called. Banzai Vitale. Anybody wants to be a stunt person just starting, go to Banzai's school, the Stunt Performers Academy. And so Banzai was in front of me. He was second. Some other guy was first. And I'm watching these guys. I watch the first guy hit the mini, do a face-off. Banzai hits the mini, does a face-off. I've always been a good mimic. I've always been a good physical mimic and a creative, artistic mimic.

So I watched it. I was third up. I went and hit the mini, first time in my life, and I nailed the face-off. And I run to the end of the line, and Banzai goes, "You did it." I go, "Yeah, I did it." And since then I've done about a thousand high falls, and I do them the exact same way I did them that day.

Christian: Wow.

Greg: And then we had to do the acting portion. So I passed that test, and then they took the people that were left to the acting portion, and I'm an actor, so I got the job.

Christian: Okay.

Greg: And that's the day the universe changed for me. That was one of the pivotal points in my life, because I got the job at the Wild West stunt show being a stunt performer, and I learned different things. I learned different physical things, but I was still acting, and I was doing theater. And at the time I was doing two really good pieces of theater. They were both pick of the week in the LA Times at the same time. I would do one piece of theater, and then I would go across the street to another theater and get in the third act of another show.

Christian: Wow.

Greg: And when I would get into the third act of the other show, it started in the dark, with me lying on a couch. And I was lying on the couch in the dark, thinking to myself, okay, I did the Wild West show during the day. I went and did this other piece of theater at night, and now this is the third audience that is seeing me in the same day. And I loved it.

Christian: Yeah.

Greg: I loved it, because it meant I was working, right? It meant I was doing my craft. I was physical. I was artistic. And it was just the greatest.

The Hustle: Balancing Jobs and Passion

Christian: And so at this point, then, were you able to stop the bartending and stop the temping, and you were now working? So it wasn't like you were in the movies yet, but you were in theater, which you had looked up to, and you thought, okay, theater is really serious acting, so I am growing in my craft. And now stunt work, I'm assuming, had replaced that bartending job. So it was now not necessarily acting, but it was closer, and you were getting paid for it, and it was on the Universal lot. So that actually opened the door, maybe, to meeting some other people. I would assume it did.

Greg: It did. I met other stunt performers.

Christian: Okay.

Greg: Working up at Universal was great. However, you can't get stuck there, because it's not big-time stunt performing and it's not big-time acting.

Christian: And when you say Universal, you mean the theme park.

Greg: The theme park. Yeah. The Wild West stunt show in the theme park. So there are a lot of different stunt shows up there, and there are a lot of different people. So you network and stuff. But I would be up at the Wild West stunt show, and in between shows I would leave and hustle. I would take my headshots and drop them off at casting offices, and I'd find stunt coordinators on different films, because back in the day, that's how you got stunt jobs. You just went to a film set and you looked for the stunt coordinator and said, "Hey, I'm Greg, blah, blah, blah." And you'd hand out your stuff.

So I was constantly hustling, constantly doing that. I would leave and come back, leave and come back. Because once you're up there, that's great, but you got to leave. You've got to move on. And I would meet people, and there's stunt acting parts that come around where you say a couple lines, you get the living crap beat out of you, but you still have to audition. And because I was an actor, I got several of them.

So I was doing that, and then I thought to myself, okay, I'm splitting my focus here. Should I be an actor or a stuntman? Well, I want to be an actor more. So I was thinking about leaving stunts completely. And then I got a call for a go-see, to see if I could double Ben Stiller.

Christian: Oh, wow.

Greg: And I knew that if I was getting the phone call, a lot of other people were getting the phone call, because I didn't know anybody. I wasn't connected. The stunt coordinator didn't know me. But there was a book of stunt people that everyone had to be in. So they were just going through the book and getting everyone about Ben Stiller's height and weight and bringing them in for a lookie. So I knew I had a chance, because they were bringing me in for a lookie. So I said, "What does Ben's hair look like?" And they said, "Well, just come down." I go, "No, no, please, just tell me what his hair looks like." And they said, "It's spiky."

Preparing for the Role: Doubling for Ben Stiller

Greg: So I went to the video store, because this was a while ago. This was 22 years ago. And I got all these videos of Ben, and I watched to see how he moved on camera. And then I downloaded all these pictures of him, and I wanted to see what his body looked like, what kind of clothes he liked to wear. I saw that Ben was athletic and muscular, and he wore darker clothes. So that's what I wanted to look like. But my hair was longer.

The Journey Begins: From Awareness to Opportunity

Greg: So I took a picture of Ben and I printed it out. I took several pictures and printed them out, and in one of them, I saw his face looked like mine. It was like this big, and I took that and I pasted it...

Christian: In case, for those of you just listening, he's showing very tiny, his fingers together. It's like an inch picture of Ben.

Greg: That looked just like me. And I pasted that right next to the face on my headshot, and I put it in an envelope. And I took another picture of Ben's spiky hair, and I brought it to a barber in the morning, and I said, "Cut my hair like this." So with that, I went to the go-see, to the interview, and when I got there, there were 25 people lined up. And what I didn't know is that the day before, they had the first 25. I wasn't even the first 25.

Oh, and a side note: a few weeks before, I went and saw a sports psychologist who wanted to get into counseling actors. And my friend said, "Hey, can he give you his test, so he can test on you what it's like to be a psychologist to actors?" So he gave me this test, and I found out that I have a 98% awareness and a 2% focus.

Christian: That does not surprise me.

Greg: Right? But I have a 98% awareness. So armed with that, I go to this go-see, and I'm lined up with 25 people in front of a big trailer. It's a makeup trailer, and we're just all lined up. And a woman comes out of the trailer, and I didn't know her, but now I know her. She's still my really good friend after 22 years. Her name is Candy Neil. She was the hair person on the show, and she's looking down at us, like analyzing us. And she points to a guy next to me, and with my 98% awareness, I'm watching this, and I hear from down the line of stunt people, "It looks like that guy got it."

So I'm taking all this in, and in my brain I'm like, I didn't come down here for nothing. So I'm going to say something. I said, "Hi. Do I know you?" And I stepped away from everybody. Now, I thought everybody would follow me, but nobody did. And I thought she was going to tell me to shut up and get back in line, but she didn't. She said, "Did you work on this?" And I didn't work on anything. So I'm like, "No, maybe it's something else."

Seizing the Moment: The Importance of Preparation

Greg: And we're just sitting there talking. And then another woman comes over. Her name's Ve Neill, and she's got three Academy Awards for makeup, and she's looking at me. And then another woman comes over. Her name is Naomi Donne. She was Ben Stiller's personal hair person. And they're all looking at me like I'm the guy. And then all of a sudden they go, "Oh, his hair's too short in the back." "I cut it too short."

Christian: Oh, no.

Greg: And they said, "Should we keep the other guy? Let's keep them both, and we'll have Ben decide." And they go, "Well, wait a minute. Who looks more like him in the face?" And I opened up my picture and I pulled it out, with still his picture next to my face. And they go, "He does." So I got the job.

Christian: That's great. That's amazing.

Greg: And then the next day I met Ben. I was sitting in the makeup trailer, and I'm looking in the mirror of the makeup trailer, and the door is open so I could see outside. And Ben walks by, and he goes like this to me, and I go like that to him, and he walks up and comes right next to me. And I'm staring at Ben Stiller, and I just busted out laughing, and then he busted out laughing, and he goes, "I can live with this."

Christian: Oh, that's awesome. Everybody, I just want to stop for a moment, and I just want you to take that in, okay? Because it's a wonderful story. It's engaging, and Greg's an amazing storyteller, but there's some things I want to point out here. He worked really hard at research. That was at the bottom of what Greg was doing here. He spent a lot of time researching what he needed to do. That was number one. And number two was preparation. So then he really prepared for what he needed to do.

Number three, he was willing to do what he had to do. He cut his hair. He went the extra mile, getting all the pictures ready, and he knew that he was going to go and he was going to take those pictures with him. And I mean, he had a plan. He had it all thought out, and he was ready and prepared for anything that happened. He thought about the clothes, he thought about the hair, he knew what was important. And then in the moment, he was aware of his surroundings, but then he took a risk. And the risk was, I'm going to not just sit here and wait for something to happen to me. I'm going to make something happen. And that's a scary thing for everybody to do, especially for somebody that is insecure, as you talked about from the beginning.

The Humbling Experience of Stunt Work

Christian: I think that's interesting, Greg, because even in your trailer that we listened to in the beginning, and in the beginning of this interview, we talked about how underneath you have that lack of self-confidence, that lack of self-belief. And yet in a moment that really counted, in a self-defining moment in your career, you believed enough in yourself to take that risk.

Greg: Yeah, thank you. That was another day the universe changed for me. I did that research because I was an actor, and that's what you do as an actor. You prepare, you do research, you get as much knowledge as you can so you can live truthfully through the imaginary circumstance.

Christian: That reminds me of a great book by Uta Hagen. An Actor Prepares.

Greg: An Actor Prepares. Yeah, great book. And that's essential, but it's essential in the stunt world as well. And I worked my backside off doing that. It's funny. Actors are also emotional. I rarely ever talk about this.

Christian: I know actors are also emotional. And that's what I love about you, Greg, is that you really do show your heart. You don't hold back with your emotions. And I think it had to have been an emotional moment.

Greg: Well, the thing is, without it, I don't know where I'd be. I started stunts later than other people, and life is difficult. And I worked really hard, but that's no guarantee that you're going to get something. That's no guarantee you're going to be successful, but you got to work hard anyway. And Ben Stiller just happened to like me.

Christian: Yeah.

Greg: But it's a blessing from God, in my opinion, by the way. That meant a lot. And even though I'm an actor and that's what I wanted to do, I thought to myself, well, maybe God wants me to be a stuntman for a while. And I learned a lot being a stuntman. I learned a lot about myself. I learned that actors put themselves first, and you should. You're the one behind the camera. But as a stuntman, you're humbled a lot. You're humbled a lot by the life of falling down.

Christian: Mm-hmm.

The Duality of Stunt Work: Gift and Challenge

Greg: So when I started doubling Ben, I put Ben first. I have to put Ben first. And I cared for that relationship. I cared for his safety and all that. And in life, you love what you care for. And I love Ben for all the things we've done together. But the condition of putting something before you is good. It's humbling. You learn a lot about yourself. And even though stunts wasn't my primary goal in life, I learned a lot from it. I got a lot from it. And it's been a great ride. But of course I'm going back to acting now, and directing and writing and creating.

Christian: What's interesting, though, is there is a love-hate relationship, I think, with things sometimes. And stunts has been an incredible gift for you. There's just no question when I hear you talk. And I mean, Greg, you've traveled all over the world. Anybody has to do is watch Walter Mitty to look at where you've been and what you have done, and that's just one of your many movies. And yes, you're right, it's humbling. Nobody really knows what you have done. You get no glory for that.

Now, what is amazing is you've told me a lot how much Ben is thankful for you, and how he is kind to you. And I'm sure that a lot of other famous actors probably don't treat their stunt doubles very kindly. So you're fortunate that you have had...

Greg: I'm really fortunate in that regard. But there are other actors that have treated me great. Another one I work with, excuse me, Frank Grillo. I've done many things with Frank. Frank's been great to me as well. And yeah, it's been an incredible ride. You're right. I've traveled all over the world. I won a couple World Stunt Awards.

Christian: Yeah. What were those for?

Greg: There are different categories in the World Stunt Awards. One of them was best high work, being up at a height.

Christian: Yeah.

Greg: And that was for a thing I did for Ben in Starsky & Hutch. And Hardest Hit.

Christian: Oh, God.

Greg: Which is kind of a weird category, but that was for a stunt I did for Robert Downey in Iron Man.

Christian: Okay. So what were those two stunts, and where can we see them?

Greg: Well, the first one I won for Ben, for best high work, is in Starsky & Hutch, where Ben jumps from one building to another building across an alley. I jumped from a 100-foot building across an alley to a 70-foot building. And the second one is in Iron Man one, when Robert is testing out the boots for his Iron Man suit for the first time and does this backflip into a wall.

Christian: Yeah, I remember that. I remember that.

Greg: Which was a lot of fun to do.

Christian: Yeah.

Greg: So I mean, really, I've had so much fun. I've gotten to do things other people only dream about. It's awesome.

Behind the Scenes: The Reality of Stunt Work

Greg: However, it's humbling as well. After I do these big stunts, I don't ride off into the sunset. I've got to clean up the set. I got to clean up the pads. I got to haul stuff out. It's not all glamour. It sounds good.

Christian: It sounds good, but right. And I mean, you're not the one walking across the red carpet. You're not the one getting the awards. You're not the one at the after parties. You're not the one at the Oscars, like, truthfully. And also, you're not the one getting the pay. Let's be real. I mean, you get paid, but you don't get the actor pay, truthfully. So yeah, it's humbling. And also, let's throw in one more thing. Actors aren't usually the ones in the emergency room.

Greg: It's the injuries. It's humbling. And the thing is, if I have to slam on the ground five times and I'm hurt, and they say to you, "Do you have another one in you?" you go, "Yeah, I have another one in me." Even though you're hurt.

Christian: And I know, this is... I mean, you may hate this, because I'm sure stunt people think this is... I don't know, maybe they will like it or maybe not.

Greg: They don't.

Christian: But the only way that I can understand what your job is, is, thanks to Ryan Gosling, I did see The Fall Guy. And I was able to see how thankless your job is, and how you just get treated pretty thanklessly, as you're just thrown into things, and they don't really consider your health or well-being at all. And if you do complain, then you really aren't used anymore. It's kind of like, let's move on to the next guy. And so I did get a little bit of a window into your world, actually. I don't know how realistic it was, but it did make me feel like, gosh, Greg's job is not as glamorous as it looks.

Greg: Yeah, it's... People become stunt people because they want to. And if you're working as a stunt person, you've got your dream. But it certainly is humbling. You certainly don't get respect all the time. I mean, through Ben Stiller and through Frank Grillo and through Tom Lennon and a number of other people I've worked with, I've gotten people who appreciate me. Absolutely. But it's definitely not glamorous, and that's why I created my show, Stunted. It's the other side, the non-glamorous side of being a stuntman. And there are many comedic moments to that, if you choose to see them that way.

But it can be humiliating. It's definitely challenging when you're dealing with your injuries and things like that. And it's also serious, because there's people who get seriously hurt. I mean, tragically hurt in my business. It's no joke. I treat it in a lighthearted manner in my show, in my shorts. But it's very serious. People do get hurt. It's dangerous, for sure. So it tests you. I've been tested many times, when I was petrified to do a stunt and I did it anyway.

Directing: Bringing Vision to Life

Christian: Right. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people think, oh, well, there must be some safety things built in. Like, they can't really be rolling in that car. They can't really be jumping off that building. That's really got to be CGI, right? But I guess the stunts really are real a lot of times.

Greg: Yeah, they're practical. I mean, we do try to take every precaution necessary, or that we can, but there are times when the stunt coordinator walks up to you and says, "This is going to be a thumper. This one's going to hurt." Like, "Yeah, I know. I know. I know what you want. I got it."

Christian: Well, let's move on a little bit to directing, because I know you've done some of that as well. And I wanted to cover all the things you do, which is acting, stunt work and directing. And you are going to direct this show, Stunted. I even think you wrote it as well. But let's talk about directing, because directing is a different beast altogether. And I do think that, as an actor, being in front of the camera really does help you be a better director. So talk about what kind of director you are, and how being in front of the camera has made you a different director.

Greg: Well, I started writing my show. I mean, I wrote theater. I was an English major in college, and I wrote in college. And when I started the show, I like writing very much. And once you write the narrative, you definitely want to direct it, because you don't want someone else to screw it up, right? So when I started creating the shorts I did, I knew exactly what I wanted. When you write, you lay out your vision, and as a director, you apply that vision and you bring it to reality.

And luckily, I observed so many great directors in my career. I've worked on so many movies where I've gotten to see these great directors, Ben Stiller, Shawn Levy, et cetera. And Ben writes and directs a lot of his own stuff. So I was sitting right there watching him. And I knew camera angles. I knew how I wanted it set up. And in my brain, I walk on set and I see exactly what I want, and I try my best to bring what's in my brain to the screen.

And then when you edit... As I've heard Ben Stiller say, the edit is the final draft of the film, because then you put it all together. You change things around. And I love it. I love it. I love it all. And as I said, I've had great role models in that, where Ben acts, writes and directs his own stuff.

Christian: Right.

Greg: So I want to do that, right? And it's been just awesome.

Christian: Yeah. So I do think you're right. You've had wonderful role models in front of you, and it is amazing to have a front-row seat at somebody's life like that, where you can learn without having a graduate degree, with some of the greats. So we are having a front-row seat at your life right now, and I want to say thank you for sharing that with us. It's really a wonderful opportunity.

And, listeners, I want you to understand that when making documentaries, the reason I think it's important to learn from Greg is, I had a lot of reenactments in my documentary film, and that's why I think acting, directing and stunt work come in handy. In my documentary film, I needed all of those. We used a lot of acting, we did use some stunt work, and I did have to direct, of course. But you may have to do that same thing as well.

Documentary Insights: Learning from Experience

Christian: And so I would like Greg to talk us through a little bit, next time, some of his tips and tricks and suggestions about acting and stunt work in particular, and what his advice would be. Some acting advice, and some advice on how to direct actors and stunt workers, and just some things as filmmakers we should know about how to work with actors and stunt people. So, Greg, be thinking about that. And when I have you come back on the show, I want us to talk more practically about how our filmmakers can work better with actors and with stunt people as they're making their films.

Greg: You got it.

Christian: Good. Will you come back?

Greg: Absolutely. I'd love to.

Christian: Fantastic. Okay. And so if people want to see your work, let's name some films. I mean, we're going to put them in the show notes and stuff, but tell us some of your favorite films where they can see your work.

Greg: Well, The Secret Life of Walter Mitty is one of my favorites.

Christian: Yeah, one of my favorites.

Greg: Iron Man one. All the Night at the Museum films. Tropic Thunder, my favorites. Starsky & Hutch, for sure. Wow. There's so many.

Christian: I know. Just go to IMDb. Just go to IMDb.

Greg: I just did a film doubling an actor named Barry Keoghan. It's called Crime 101. It's coming out sometime. That was a lot of fun, too.

DocuView Deja View

Christian: Awesome. All right. Well, we're now moving into everybody's favorite segment, called DocuView Deja View. All right, Greg, I asked you to come prepared with a documentary to recommend for our audience. What you got for us?

Greg: I recently saw a documentary called Mountain Queen.

Christian: That sounds interesting.

Greg: It is awesome. It is about a Nepali woman, the first Nepali woman to climb Everest.

Christian: Wow.

Greg: And she did it 10 times.

Christian: Oh my gosh.

Greg: Three kids. And it's an amazing story of her life. She lives in the United States now. She married a guy, moved to the United States, had a really tough time. Had a really, really tough life. She has three kids, as I said, and it is the most inspirational story about grit and strength and perseverance that you'll see. Completely inspiring, totally entertaining. The woman is a rock star. But the thing she had to deal with outside of climbing Everest, which you would think is the hardest thing imaginable, and she did it 10 times, it's her personal life. The things she had to overcome. It's amazing.

Christian: Awesome. Thank you so much for bringing that to our attention. All right, everybody, we will put that in the show notes. Greg, thank you so much for being here. It was really a pleasure for us.

Greg: I had a great time.

Christian: Great to get to know you. We look forward to having you back.

Greg: Thank you.

Christian: All right, everybody, you've been listening to Documentary First, where we believe everybody has a story to tell and you can be the one to tell it. Bye, everybody.

Greg: Bye.

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