Revitalizing Communities: The Heirloom Project with Josh Nowell and Jim Rasberry

Documentary First, Episode 253 · with Josh Nowell and Jim Rasberry, developers behind The Heirloom Hotel & Cooking School and stars of HGTV’s Home Town · 55 minutes · June 5, 2025

Listen: Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all apps · Watch: YouTube · Read: Full transcript

How can storytelling bring a small town back to life?

For about 20 years, Josh Nowell and Jim Rasberry have worked to revitalize downtown Laurel, Mississippi, the town where Josh grew up. It started with one small apartment and grew into multiple businesses and remodeled buildings, a place on HGTV’s Home Town, and their biggest project yet: The Heirloom, a four-story, 30-room boutique hotel with a cooking school.

In Episode 253 of Documentary First, host Christian Taylor and her son and co-host Hunter Taylor talk with Josh and Jim about why they called the hotel the Heirloom, and how they plan to pair it with the Heirloom Network, a set of shows and a podcast about the work people do that will matter 50 years from now. Laurel is Christian’s hometown too, and the four of them recorded the episode a few weeks before traveling together to Normandy, where Josh and Jim planned to film recipes with French families.

The conversation also turns to the business of media: how Home Town began, how streaming, YouTube and TikTok changed the competition for viewers’ time, Hunter’s industry research on vertical integration and streaming bundles, and why Christian believes the quality of an audience matters more than its size.

In this episode, you’ll learn

• What The Heirloom is, and why Josh and Jim see a small town’s old buildings as an inheritance to polish up
• How a Normandy recipe idea and a pastor named Luke Johnson connected the Heirloom team with Christian Taylor
• Why Christian calls The Girl Who Wore Freedom her heirloom, and why she kept ownership of the film
• How the Heirloom Network plans to combine digital storytelling with a physical hotel people can visit
• Why Jim Rasberry believes the stories worth telling are the ones that create the greatest feeling
• How HGTV’s Home Town came about after media found the storytelling Erin was doing on her blog and Instagram
• How streaming, YouTube and TikTok changed what it means to compete for an audience, and where Hunter Taylor sees the industry going
• A Mississippi connection to the 101st Airborne Division at Camp Shelby, and the story of Old Abe

Questions and answers

What is The Heirloom in Laurel, Mississippi?

The Heirloom is a four-story, 30-room boutique hotel in downtown Laurel, Mississippi, with a cooking school, built by Josh Nowell and Jim Rasberry. Josh explains that the name comes from the idea that a small town’s streets, old houses and old buildings are an inheritance you have to take care of and polish up. The hotel also houses their studios, and when the episode was recorded they planned to open it in the fourth quarter of the year.

What is the Heirloom Network?

The Heirloom Network is Josh Nowell and Jim Rasberry’s collection of shows, starting with the Heirloom podcast, built around one question: what are we doing today that will be a legacy tomorrow? Jim Rasberry describes it as a platform within a platform, with streams on woodworking, recipes, construction and more. The physical hotel is meant to be the place where people can walk in and see where the content is filmed.

How did HGTV’s Home Town get started?

Josh Nowell says he and his partners spent about 10 years focused on restoring downtown Laurel, Mississippi, including forming a local Main Street group, before media found them. People saw the storytelling Erin was doing through her blog and Instagram, and a production company out of Canada pitched the show to the network. “Media kind of found us,” Josh says.

How has the competition for viewers changed for filmmakers?

Jim Rasberry says that everybody now competes for a viewer’s time, not just for a time slot: “Nobody competed for my 8 o’clock time slot on Thursdays.” Josh Nowell adds that since TikTok, algorithms often choose what people watch, and networks now look for creators with large followings. Christian Taylor argues that the quality of followers matters more than the count, because dedicated followers become a community.

Why are real estate developers guests on a documentary filmmaking podcast?

Christian Taylor says Josh Nowell and Jim Rasberry are storytellers in just about everything they do, whether they are restoring buildings, making shows or recording podcasts. Jim says the stories most worth telling are the ones that create the greatest feeling, and that if you wait for somebody else to tell your story, it is probably going to be wrong.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Documentary First
• 1:27 The Heirloom Project Unveiled
• 5:08 The Journey of Serial Entrepreneurship
• 6:10 Storytelling as a Core Value
• 8:04 Connecting Through Shared Hometowns
• 11:38 The Legacy of the Heirloom
• 15:20 The Heirloom Network and Its Vision
• 20:21 Creating Memorable Experiences
• 25:28 The Importance of Storytelling
• 30:12 The Evolution of Media and Storytelling
• 32:20 The Evolution of Media Consumption
• 34:21 Industry Analysis and Strategic Insights
• 38:19 Competition for Viewer Attention
• 41:26 Building Digital Communities
• 48:04 The Power of Relationships in Storytelling

About the guests

Josh Nowell grew up in Laurel, Mississippi, and has worked for about 20 years on revitalizing its downtown. He describes himself as a commercial contractor and a historical redeveloper. With Jim Rasberry, he is building The Heirloom Hotel & Cooking School, and he appears with Jim on HGTV’s Home Town.

Jim Rasberry is Josh Nowell’s partner in commercial real estate development in Laurel, taking buildings that have stood for more than a hundred years and bringing them back to life, and sharing those stories through their podcast and video work. He appears on HGTV’s Home Town and is part of the team behind The Heirloom and the Heirloom Network.

Hunter Taylor, Christian’s son, joins as co-host. He has been part of Documentary First’s storytelling since it began and brings a background in strategy, entrepreneurship and data analysis.

About Documentary First

For people who make documentaries and people who love them. Discover how documentaries actually get made, paid for and seen with filmmaker Christian Taylor. Plus DocuView Deja View, where every guest recommends a documentary worth watching. One week, a long-form conversation about a guest's journey, projects and lessons; the next, The Deep Dive, Christian's short solo reflection on one idea from that conversation. Guests have included Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy. Christian directed the award-winning documentary The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Nearly 300 conversations. Listen Notes top 5% worldwide. 4.8 on Apple Podcasts. New episodes every week. Follow the show · About the podcast · Support the show on Patreon

Resources mentioned

• The Heirloom (hotel, cooking school and Heirloom Network)
• Christian and Hunter Taylor as guests on the Heirloom channel
• Home Town (Wikipedia)

This episode is sponsored by Artillery Sports. Use the code DocFirst for 10% off your order.

Full transcript

Introduction to Documentary First

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Christian Taylor: Welcome to Documentary First, an inside look at documentary filmmaking. I’m your host and a documentary filmmaker myself, Christian Taylor. And I just want to say today is an exciting episode that I’ve been waiting to share with you for such a long time. Well, really only like four weeks. But I’m so excited because today I have my son Hunter Taylor. I am always happy when he is here with me. He has been part of our Documentary First storytelling ever since it began.

And we also have two new friends that we have met over the course of, I would say, two months, but now they’ve become very dear friends. And right now, as you are listening to this, we are together in Normandy, believe it or not. And so, by the time that is over, we’re going to become like family.

The Heirloom Project Unveiled

Christian: So, I’d like to introduce to you Josh Nowell and Jim Rasberry. Guys, welcome. Thank you for coming on the show.

Josh Nowell: Thanks for having us.

Jim Rasberry: Yeah, Christian, thanks. Thanks so much for having us. Hunter, good to see you again.

Hunter Taylor: It’s great to see you guys.

Christian: Now, as you will notice, if you were watching this podcast, which I hope you are because it’s much more fun to see us all in person, Hunter and I are wearing something called the Heirloom. Hunter’s got it on correctly because I did not reverse my camera. But anyway, the Heirloom is something that’s very special, and I’m not really going to tell you what it is because we’re going to let our gentleman friends here introduce themselves and tell you who they are. But we did get these shirts from Jim and Josh. And so we want to tell you guys a little bit about who they are and let them tell you about their new thing in development. So Josh, I’m gonna let you kick it off. What is the Heirloom?

Josh: Yes. So I’m Josh Nowell and I live in Laurel, Mississippi, a very important town to me. It’s where I grew up. The Heirloom is the latest project that we’ve been working on. We’ve been working for about 20 years on revitalizing our downtown, bringing our hometown back to life. And the Heirloom is the latest big ticket item that we’re working on.

Hunter: So, iteration, it’s a...

Josh: Yes, exactly. So it started, we started with one small apartment. I had an apartment downtown and that has grown into multiple businesses and buildings that have been remodeled. The Heirloom is a four-story, 30-room boutique hotel in downtown Laurel, Mississippi that will also have a cooking school. I got Jim, help me there.

Jim: A cooking school.

Josh: But the idea behind the Heirloom is we all have received something, particularly if you grow up in a small town in America. You’ve received a great inheritance, both in the layout of the streets, the old houses, the old buildings. For us, that’s what our downtown footprint is. It’s an heirloom that we’ve received from our grandparents. And just like any heirloom you get, you got to take care of it. You got to bring it out and polish it up for special events. And that’s what we’ve been doing for our downtown. And this building, this hotel was our latest project.

Jim: Yep. So, I’m Jim Rasberry, and if I had to think about the question of what do you do and also who you are, and who we are, no doubt. But when someone says what do you do? I suspect it’s as hard for us to answer that as it is for an aspiring filmmaker to answer that, because anyone that has a creative bone in their body has something inside of them, a spirit inside of them that keeps them hands on several irons in the fire. And so for us, when they say, you know, what do you guys do for a living? A lot. We do a lot.

And to Josh’s point about economic development and revitalizing a small town, one of the things that has kind of evolved into over the years has been a show on HGTV called Home Town. But then what Josh and I really enjoy doing most of our time is the commercial real estate development. What you see on Home Town is residential redevelopment and taking old homes and remodeling those. But what we love to do and find the greatest pride in is what’s on the commercial side. Taking what is considered a dilapidated or useless piece of real estate that has been almost forgotten, that maybe has stood for over a hundred years, and try to breathe life back into that, and we want to document it.

And so what we do is we share our stories of revitalization through our podcast, through video work, and then the stories that we tell. And that really is where the Heirloom was born. Why we wanted to call something this big, this big of a project, the Heirloom, because truly it’s kind of the, to this point in our lives, it is really the definition of what our whole career has led up to. So, and, you know...

The Journey of Serial Entrepreneurship

Hunter: Sorry.

Jim: Go. Yeah, go ahead.

Hunter: Yeah, you know, Mom, I have to say when I first heard about the Heirloom team and everything that they’re doing, I have to say I was a little bit skeptical, because traditional business wisdom would say that serial entrepreneurs, they start up something, they start this project, and then they tend to hand it off to somebody else to kind of finish out that dream. And these guys, they don’t hand it off. They start up another iteration and then another iteration. And yet, for some reason, even though they maintain control of it and they keep that storytelling going and they’re maintaining it the whole time, it’s still successful.

So, I have to say I was proven wrong. You guys have cracked some secret that I have to figure out and I will try to see if I can incorporate that into what we’re doing. But I have to say I’m very impressed with your portfolio.

Josh: We are serial entrepreneurs, as you say. Usually, we eat breakfast together and every new bowl of cereal we eat, we have some new idea. Most of them don’t work out, though. That’s our version of serial entrepreneurship.

Jim: That’s a new idea at breakfast. And then go for it.

Storytelling as a Core Value

Christian: That is a great segue, because I was going to say people might be wondering why in the world I would have serial entrepreneurs on my documentary filmmaking show. And here is the answer. These gentlemen are storytellers. They’re storytellers in just about everything they do. If you spend two minutes with them, you will get a story just with, you know, being with who they are. But then if you spend an hour with them or a day with them or a week with them, or you walk around and you see what they do, you will see that their lives are a story in everything they do.

And they breathe those stories into all of their work, whether they’re buildings or shows or podcasts. And to me, that is a real life documenting of, you know, stories. And so it really aligns with what we’re trying to do, the documentary filmmaking sort of stuff. And truthfully, even if you look at your Home Town show, that is real life stuff. Yes, it’s scripted TV, but it is also real life stuff. I mean, you have people there reacting to whether or not they want a house or whether or not they like what was done for them or not. Now, there of course is some, you know, crafting there, but you’re still dealing with, you know, storytelling and documentary type stuff.

Josh: Real people, real stories.

Christian: Real people, real stories, absolutely.

Connecting Through Shared Hometowns

Christian: So, our worlds kind of came together. Now, how did our worlds come together? It’s quite unique. I love this story because we have this in common, that it’s both our hometowns. Laurel, Mississippi is my hometown just like it’s y’all’s. And that just means the world to me. However, I didn’t know y’all. I didn’t know y’all from a hole in the wall. But somehow God brought us together. And I would love y’all to tell that story.

Josh: Yeah. So, you know what’s interesting, we had, so the idea behind the Heirloom, while it is a hotel and it’s a big building, remember, a physical representation of an heirloom, it’s only special because it tells a story. So the watch that you have is special because it was your grandfather’s watch and he wore it in World War II. That’s what makes something special. That’s what makes something an heirloom.

So when we chose the Heirloom as the flagship brand name for our hotel, our cooking school, and our development in Laurel, we were really thinking about it first as a form of storytelling, of asking the question, what are we doing today that is going to be a legacy tomorrow, that’s going to be remembered? What’s going to be treasured as an heirloom? That’s what the idea is all about. And so while we’re doing the hotel and the building, the entire time we’ve also wanted to do more production work, more film work to tell stories that are worth preserving.

So we started the podcast as one of our first ideas for production, because it’s nice to have people on of all different stripes, whether they’re documentary filmmakers or TV stars or astronauts or pilots or a rocking chair maker. We have them on and we’re digging to find, hey, what do you think that you’re do... What of all the things you do, what do you think is going to matter the most 50 years from now? What are you doing that’s going to last as legacy? And so that’s, the Heirloom is a hotel, but it is first for us a place to tell story and preserve story for future generations.

And so when we were talking about the hotel, we have a cooking school downstairs where we want to, recipes, Southern recipes. But we started talking about production ideas. Like, wouldn’t it be really cool if we went around getting recipes, preserving recipes as part of a show or series? And I had this like crazy idea. I was like, man, what if one day we went to like Normandy and followed like the paths of a World War II vet, to maybe meet French people to see what meals they would have cooked for these...

Christian: Was that born after you met Jimmy Bass? Was there any connection with you interviewing Jimmy Bass, or was that just out of your head?

Josh: Great question. Yeah, Jimmy Bass actually is a local World War II vet. He’s 103.

Jim: No, no, no, no. He’s...

Josh: No, he’s 98.

Jim: That’s right. He joined up...

Josh: Yeah, he joined up towards the end of the war and he lied about his age.

Jim: That’s right.

Josh: So, yeah, he’s actually a young guy. Yeah, but he served in the Pacific. And so, you know, growing up in Laurel, you know Jimmy Bass’s stories, but for the most part, you hear his perspective from the Pacific, and we really didn’t have really anybody that had a one-on-one connection with the European theater. Yeah. And so, and actually before that, it was just one of those weird ideas, like, man, that would be really neat if we could tell. And I think, I don’t know if that came after our Jimmy Bass podcast episode, which hasn’t aired yet. I actually think the idea was there first.

And so lo and behold, there’s a guy at our church, our pastor Luke Johnson, and I mentioned that idea to him and he said, “You need to meet my cousin.” And he introduced us, and you are literally taking a World War II vet to Normandy in two weeks. And so that’s, now we’re here now when this airs. So that’s how we met you, and it was just providential.

The Legacy of the Heirloom

Christian: Yeah. You know, I got this phone call from my cousin Luke, and he’s just the greatest guy ever. I mean, he called me and he’s got this thick Southern accent and he’s talking so fast, and he’s talking to me about these guys and this astronaut and these people, and he told me it was Jimmy. He’s talking about Jimmy Bass and going to Normandy and these people in my church and “you just got to meet him.” And I was like, what in the world are you talking about? And I just couldn’t keep up. And he’s like, “You just got to talk to him.” And I was like, “Okay, I’ll talk to him.” I didn’t know y’all from Adam.

And truth be known, I knew of Home Town and I’ve watched it a few times, but I’m not, you know, like obsessed with Home Town like many, many people are. I mean, it’s in its ninth season. And if y’all haven’t watched Home Town, you need to watch it.

Hunter: I’ll say, my fiancée, after this whole meeting happened, she has now become a rabid fan.

Christian: So, yeah, it is a wonderful show and I do love it. And I have known about it for a very, very long time, because actually your cousin’s mother, so Erin’s mother, worked in my grandfather’s and my uncle’s real estate office. So I mean, I’ve known of y’all’s family for a long time. We’ve been kind of connected.

Josh: That’s right.

Christian: So I kind of, I’ve been bouncing around on the outside of this world, just, you know, never met you guys. So anyway, when Luke said, you know, you got to meet these guys, I knew of you, just didn’t know you. And I said, “Well, yeah, let’s set up a call.” Well, I happened to be with Hunter. And I was like, “Well, why don’t we do a Zoom call with Hunter?” And lo and behold, here we are on a Zoom call with Josh and Luke. And we start talking. And in like a matter of, I don’t know, not long after Josh started talking and Hunter started talking, I realized we had two peas in a pod, because they sort of are very similar. And I knew we had something very special. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s how we got connected.

Josh: I was going to say, that’s how we got connected to you guys. And then of course, after that, I did not know about The Girl Who Wore Freedom until after we met that first time. So, of course we’ve watched that since and just love the work that you guys did in bringing that film to audiences. It’s awesome work.

Christian: That’s my heirloom. That’s my heirloom that I am leaving not only to my own family. I mean, truthfully, that’s why I kept ownership of it. I never gave it away, because it’s something that I’m going to pass down to my family. I get very emotional when I think about that, because it is something that my family will own forever. It will go down to Hunter. It will be in our family. But not only that, it’s going to live out in the, you know, for a really long time, which means the story of the French people honoring our veterans is going to be out there.

And I feel like the legacy of the Greatest Generation is that freedom that they gave not only the French people, you know, the Europeans and really the rest of the world. So, for us, that story, that feeling of legacy is really built into what we did. So, I appreciate your appreciation of our work. And after that, you decided to have us on the podcast down in Laurel, Mississippi. We came down there and saw you. So, while, you know, this episode airs on June 4th, we are out having a great time in Normandy, but we came down to Laurel to do a podcast with you that’s going to be airing on June the 6th. So, it’s going to air.

Josh: Yeah.

The Heirloom Network and Its Vision

Christian: Yeah. So, we’re hoping if you’re listening to this podcast today, what you’ll really do is go watch the podcast on the Heirloom Network, right? The Heirloom Network. Why don’t you give us...

Josh: You can find it at theheirloom.us, or the best way is on YouTube, to look for the Heirloom Network on YouTube or the Heirloom podcast, and then you’ll be able to watch the episode that’ll be airing June the 6th, so two days from now.

Hunter: Yeah. So, you say this Heirloom Network, but from what I understand, and we’ve kind of hinted at it already, you kind of have a ton of different projects under this Heirloom umbrella. Is that...

Josh: Yeah, it is. Yeah, a lot of them are in the works. So what we recognize is people’s connection to digital devices, it increases the desire for a physical experience. So our hope is, what we try to do is we try to combine our storytelling through media and digital storytelling, YouTube and social media, into an experience. You can actually come into a physical space. You can see a hotel. You can see us hanging out in the lobby or in the basement kids area that we built. Not a bar like Jim wanted.

Jim: Right. No. No. I think I’m really excited about the family-friendly atmosphere the basement’s going to offer.

Christian: Well, I haven’t heard about this basement. What are y’all talking about?

Josh: Well, so there was a little bit of contention inside of our Heirloom family, our friend family group.

Jim: Not much. I mean, when you’re overridden by the entire group, there’s not a whole lot of conflict.

Josh: So, we have about a thousand square foot basement in this hotel. It’s full of water. It’s a mess. We have content about that coming out later next year, but it’s a mess, and we decided we’re going to restore this basement, and Jim has a vision for it. Jim?

Jim: Yeah. No, I had a vision for it. Now, you know, when you’re in a beautiful boutique hotel, imagine walking in, seeing incredible craftsmanship, amazing woodwork, having a feel. It gives you a feeling. It has...

Christian: Like what’s behind you? Is it kind of like that woodwork that’s behind you?

Jim: Yeah, very similar. More detailed, actually. Like, more detailed than that. Yeah. So, you know, it has character. It has a feeling. And I don’t know, things like that get me in the mood for music, for having a good cocktail.

Christian: Little jazz.

Jim: Having a little jazz.

Christian: I’m feeling you.

Jim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We’re only two hours from New Orleans. Josh prefers screaming children when having an experience. Milk and cookies, things like that. Maybe a game of Jenga. And so that’s what we’re going with. That’s what we’re going with, because he’s still young.

Christian: He’s so young.

Jim: I mean, he’ll grow up. As you know, our target, I don’t know if you know or not, but a large group of the real base demographic of Home Town fans are typically an older set, closing in closer to retirement probably. You know, the kids have probably moved off and done their own thing. So, you know, while we’re not expecting a lot of families to be coming to the hotel, those few that do are going to have a fantastic place to go hang out in the basement.

Hunter: And two thoughts.

Josh: Let me finish. When he said that I prefer it, he means that me and Mallorie prefer it, which means we’re doing it as a kids area.

Hunter: Yes. So, two thoughts. The first one would be, going along with the families that will be coming to the Heirloom, I have seen some of the more family-oriented suites that you had at the Heirloom, and some of those are extraordinarily impressive. So, I think that the families will really enjoy not just the basement, but also the suites themselves.

Josh: We’re ready for travelers of all ages.

Christian: That is true. Yeah.

Josh: And Jim has figured out a system.

Christian: So, you had another point, Hunter. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Hunter: Well, and the second point was, “Hey, Jim, I’m creating that exact vibe that you want in my loft on the river. So you can come over and we’ll have that Maker’s Mark whenever you want.”

Josh: What is friendship besides compromise, right? And we’ve compromised. Jim is going to rent the space from the Heirloom Hotel.

Jim: Thank you so much for your kind generosity.

Josh: On Mondays and Tuesdays, he’s going to have a great jazz night. Rasberry Jazz Night. He’ll have bands from New Orleans. It’s going to be quite the entertainment.

Christian: Is that true? Is that true? You will give him some time, or are you just...

Josh: He has the right to.

Jim: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting. The definition of compromise has yet to really be determined between the two of us.

Hunter: But I’m just saying, though, a Rasberry jazz night sounds like a real jam. So, I want that, too.

Christian: I agree.

Josh: We’ll reduce your rent since you have...

Jim: That’s a good saying.

Christian: Rasberry Jam Night. Join us. It’s a real jam.

Josh: That’s good. That’s good. That’s very good.

Hunter: It’s a real jam.

Jim: We charge by the hour for marketing.

Christian: So, that’s awesome.

Josh: Yeah. But so all that idea of storytelling, that’s what we’re talking about, storytelling. We want to have a physical place that represents the digital media that we create. And so we film the podcast at the hotel. We’re going to create other content around the hotel. So that’s what that’s all about. Just combining that digital world with the real world, so that people can walk into a space and be like, this is where they film the blank.

Creating Memorable Experiences

Hunter: Now, would you categorize that as like an internet of things, almost? Like, it’s tangential to that, would you say?

Josh: Yeah, I think that’s, you know, yeah, that’s the concept, right? Just a place that...

Jim: Well, and Disney has done this. What Disney does, first they create the media story and the mental side of what a place is, and then you get there and see it. So that’s it. People get familiar with a space and you give them an opportunity to walk into it.

Think about this for a second: the last great meal you had. I’m talking about like fantastic, memorable experience. Not just the food, but everything about it. It was just 10 out of 10. You probably have something in your mind. Now, tell me about the most bland meal you’ve had recently, and anything else that’s forgettable. Maybe a little bit more difficult to just conjure up, like, “Oh, well, I didn’t remember it because I didn’t want to.”

All right. What I’m getting at is the stories we tell, I believe, the ones that are most valuable, the ones that are worth telling, are the ones that create the greatest feeling inside of us. It’s the most memorable experiences. It’s the things that have the greatest flavor. Yeah. It’s the things that are 100%. It’s, excuse my soon-to-be French, half-ass things that we tend to forget, and we don’t really want to spend time trying to conjure those things back up. It’s the things that are just like all-in, full speed, amazing experiences that we are trying to go to and pull out what’s great about that person, what’s great about that story, and let’s keep that story going.

And so while it may be a podcast episode that’s part of our overall network that is from a guy who makes rocking chairs, well, guess what? He doesn’t just make rocking chairs. He’s made rocking chairs for five presidents. He’s made rocking chairs in a way that’s been passed down five generations, in a method that no one else can replicate. I mean, here’s a guy who is passionate about rocking chair making. And it ain’t about the technicality of rocking chairs. It’s about the story, the feeling of it.

And at the same time, we can be pulling the exact same stories, the exact same feeling, from a guy who has spent his entire life training to be an astronaut, as we talked to him on the International Space Station. What’s interesting about the people that we talk to is that the backgrounds are so varied, but at the end of the day, it comes down to their commitment to their craft and their determination to be the best at it.

While at the same time, we can be sharing stories through our recipe episodes on people that are in the community who may not be the most world-renowned chef in the world, but to their family, they’re the most important matriarch in the neighborhood. They bring the spice and life of the entire family through what they’re cooking on the Thanksgiving table. You know, we want to share those stories, but we got to have a place to do it. And if you wait for somebody else to tell your story, it’s probably going to be wrong. It’s not going to be told the way that you want it to be told.

So, it’s really our thought: we want to create an environment where genuine, incredible stories that are 10 out of 10 are being told in an honest and transparent way, and letting the stories themselves speak for those who they represent.

Hunter: So, Jim, what you just said there actually kind of struck me quite profoundly. It almost sounds as though your efforts to tell these stories are almost kind of a battle against some of the fallen side of human nature, which is that human nature, the human psyche, tends to remember negative experiences just naturally more easily. And so it almost sounds like you’re saying telling stories is a way to codify that good memory and to pass the good memory down.

Jim: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Hunter: I’ll have to think on that a bit more, but that’s just kind of something that struck me that I thought was very interesting.

Christian: Way to go, Hunter. That’s a great point. Now, I want to get back to the tangible, which is this hotel, because that’s what you’re talking about. You’re talking about creating a space where all that can happen, you know, and I want to know, when can I come be in this place and experience these memories? Is it gonna happen this soon?

Josh: That’s a fantastic question. So, I should be hanging sheetrock or something. I also do construction. Jim says we didn’t do a very good job of introducing ourselves. So, I’m a contractor, a commercial contractor, and I would call myself a historical redeveloper, historical developer.

The Importance of Storytelling

Josh: And so, we are working on it really hard. Taking a podcast break at the moment, but I expect by the end of summer, you’ll be able to start booking your rooms. End of the year for sure, you’ll be able to come stay with us. So our goal is to be open in the fourth quarter of this year. And so, like I said, you can read more about it at theheirloom.us, and we’ll kind of keep that updated as we continue the process. But remember, we’re not just building the hotel, we’re also building media content about the making of the hotel. So it adds an extra layer of complexity.

Jim: And so that place that we’re talking about, it is a physical place, in that we have our studios here in the hotel location. We are building a place that you can come and watch the filming of different episodes of all the content that we’re producing, but also you can experience Laurel. You can experience small town life. You can be a part of everyday life, of the things that we’re talking about. But that’s the physical side of it.

The more idea side, idea space of this network that we’re talking about, is, you know, so many times you go to like a YouTube channel or you go to digital content and it’s a one-off experience. And truly what we’re trying to create is a platform within a platform, a place where you can go to see multiple areas of content, whether it be a podcast or a traditional short form documentary with several episodes that follows woodworking. Maybe it’s a show that follows more of a recipe and food tilt. So, it is a lifestyle environment that we’re creating, with content in different subject matters.

Christian: So, are you talking about, then, you’re creating the Heirloom Network with different channels of content?

Jim: Yeah.

Christian: Based around the same theme or idea.

Jim: Bingo. Right. Yeah. And the reason, so we’re calling it, you know, the Heirloom Network, it’s just to help people understand the idea of a network. It’s different streams, different types of shows, but the commonality is again: what are we doing that is going to leave an impact? That’s the commonality. What are we doing that’s going to be our legacy, that’s going to matter? And you can do that with gardening, with filmmaking, with woodworking, with construction, with recipes.

Back to my experience of the best meal you’ve had recently, you can do that with people that are passionate about what they do. No matter what their specialty is, we can tell an incredible story if the person that we’re following is passionate about what they do in their life. And sometimes we got to have a different platform to do that in the best way.

Christian: Yeah. Well, I’m going to be mindful of our time, because we got a lot to talk about here. And there’s two things left I want to discuss. The one is, I want to talk about, sort of, you’ve been in this media business now for quite a while, if you look back at the starting of Home Town and where we are today. So, I’m going to talk about, you know, kind of how you’ve seen media develop and, you know, where it’s been and where you think it’s going. And Hunter has some experience here in, you know, reviewing all of this from the research, you know, kind of point of view, because we’ve been trying to figure that out ourselves.

And then I also want to talk about, you know, you mentioned before that we were thinking about going to Normandy and you threw in there some recipes. So I want to talk about that as well. So we need to come back to that at the end. So I don’t want anybody to forget that. So right now we’re going to get into the meat of this idea of where media is going, but we’re going to leave time for talking about the recipes in Normandy, because I know that’s what everybody really cares about.

All right. So, first let’s dive in. All right. You guys have started, I’m assuming, with Home Town before it actually aired, researching the idea, coming up with a concept, and that was how long ago? It must have been 10, 11 years ago.

Josh: Yeah. So, yeah, let us, and we’ll tell that story quickly. It’s been 10 years. And remember, for us the concept was we love our town and we want to revitalize it. And we didn’t understand media at that point. Media kind of found us. They found storytelling that was being done through social media by Erin, through Instagram, and discovered our town and the people that were working hard to change the town. So we were just focused on our mission of restoring our small town in South Mississippi. That was our mission, and for 10 years, that’s what we did.

We focused on forming a local Main Street, to come together to do festivities and festivals and to try to get energy going behind our small town, with the goal of changing the minds of the locals, to get them to believe in our own little downtown footprint.

The Evolution of Media and Storytelling

Josh: Out of that, media people found the story that we were telling through Erin’s blog and through Instagram, and then from that, the show got pitched to the network by a production company out of Canada. So that’s how it started. We were passionate about what we were passionate about, which was our town. And then storytelling people, media people, saw that that could make a great story. Now, since then, for 10 years, almost 10 years, we’ve learned a lot about storytelling and that media business, so to speak, or at least how it has been.

Christian: Yeah. So how have you seen it change since then, that media part of it? Because a lot has happened in the media and how media is, you know, delivered to the public. I mean, a lot has happened in the last five, much less, you know, 10.

Jim: Yeah. I think that the way media has changed, from our perspective as those who are a part of the production, has changed in that 10 years ago, network television was very strategic within its own atmosphere, within its own place. And over the last 10 years, as streaming has become more popular, as YouTube has become a greater place for content creators and for consumers to view and be entertained, along with just audio content, whether it be through podcasts like this, people are finding content and ways to be entertained in more than just network television.

And so network TV no longer has to just think about other shows in the same time slot or other networks that are creating fictional content, in some cases non-fictional or non-scripted, but now they also have to compete with creators outside of the traditional entertainment industry.

The Evolution of Media Consumption

Jim: And what’s interesting is that creators, there’s a lot of talented people in America that are creating incredible content that, for the most part, don’t need a prime time slot to get their creative piece together and put it out there. I mean, it’s just easier than ever to get it out there. And if it’s good, consumers will find it organically, and it becomes a lot easier to get your point across and get eyeballs.

Christian: Yeah. So Hunter, talk to us about the research you’ve been doing and what you’ve learned.

Hunter: Sure. So, coming from more of a strategy entrepreneurship, but then also a background in data analysis, I really like to attack analysis starting from the outside and going in. And so when we were talking about essentially Taylor Productions, all of the different things that my mother was going to be doing or hoping to do, or trying to identify strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats, I started kind of more with an industry level analysis, kind of looking at Porter’s Five Forces, looking at the different IBISWorld reports.

And for me, this process started in 2020, at the end of 2020. And so I started really with the era of COVID. And before that, I would say that typically the industry had their different channels, they had their different segments of the industry, whether it was film, well, film also broke down into movies but then also the silver screen, TV. Yes, there was YouTube. Yes, there were podcasts, and they were growing, but they were not necessarily a huge staple, I would say, at that point. COVID really did kind of change things. We did also have different types of cable networks where there was bundling of different production products. Different films or TV shows were kind of getting bundled into cable.

Industry Analysis and Strategic Insights

Hunter: And so one of the things that I’ve seen happen in the industry at large, and this kind of goes in each area, would be, if I had to describe it in one term, it would be vertical integration. So I’ve seen a lot of production companies becoming their own distributors. I’ve seen them kind of reaching up and down that supply chain as well, kind of reaching more organically and directly to the end viewer. I’ve also seen, as Jim was pointing out, you’re seeing rises of alternates, and they do absolutely compete.

As Jim was saying, I think that there’s a bit of nuance there, because some podcasts, for example, may not necessarily compete with film or TV, because I can listen to a podcast as I’m driving down the highway, going to work. I don’t necessarily do that for TV shows. But for the most part, Jim’s absolutely correct, which is that the traditional production companies absolutely have to consider this wider competitive market that they’re opening into. I believe at the end of the day, for a business, you have to deliver value, and that value can come in many ways. One of which could be pain points, which is something that I’m very interested in.

And so, my mother and I are working on, I think that we’ve identified a rough outline, because we’re starting to see, we had cable, you started to see the breakoff, you started to see vertical integration, but now you’re almost seeing, with streaming, bundling of streaming almost in a cable-like manner. And so you’re seeing Hulu and Disney kind of come together and partner for a streaming package. And so in many ways, it’s almost like reimagining what already existed.

Christian: And advertising. Advertising is huge.

Hunter: Yeah. Well, cable is reformulating, basically. And I have a feeling that that’s an intermediate stepping stone. I actually think that there’s a final evolution, or a next step evolution, after that. It’s something that Mother and I have been talking about for a while. But just based off of everything I kind of said there, does that spark any, does that resonate with your experience? Does that reflect any of your own observations?

Jim: Yeah, the one thing I was just thinking about was competition. What competition means today versus what it meant five years ago, 10 years ago, and certainly 20 years ago. And I think what it boils down to is you’re competing now, everybody’s competing, for a viewer’s time. Nobody competed for my 8 o’clock time slot on Thursdays. Seinfeld got that. Period. There was no competition.

Christian: Good choice.

Jim: Yeah. Today I can be entertained by whatever I want to be entertained by, whenever. And so now it’s truly, as the consumer, I get to pick.

Josh: Yeah. It’s actually evolved even past that, because this is what’s very interesting: in 2016, with TikTok coming, you really see the disruption again. So you already begin to see a disruption of the traditional broadcast networks in 2008 and 2009, 2010, and YouTube’s growth, because you could watch it when you want to, and you could watch a very niche show about what you wanted to watch. By 2016, the way TikTok is, you weren’t actually watching your followers first. You were watching what was best for your preference.

And so yes, with Seinfeld, you had your time when you were young, you’d watch at 8 o’clock. Then you were able to choose your shows, and now you find that you don’t always get to pick what you watch, because TikTok is telling you, and it catches you for 30 minutes. So you’ve got this strange world. And by the way, after TikTok did that in ’16, all of the other platforms, including even YouTube now with their Shorts, they’re trying to get those eyeballs back.

You went from, you didn’t have any really, you had three channels, you know, that you could watch to watch a different network prime time show, and then it was 40 or 50, and then it came to whatever you like, like Jim said, whenever you wanted to watch it, whatever you wanted to watch. That was the next step. Now it’s like I watch things I don’t want to watch, and I give like 45 minutes to it, and I’m like, why did I just do that?

Hunter: Or that you didn’t mean to.

Josh: Yeah, I know. You didn’t mean to watch. It’s just the one.

Competition for Viewer Attention

Christian: Well, and the thing is, what everybody needs to think about in this entertainment world is, what is your audience doing? Because at the end of the day, we are competing for eyeballs. And like Jim said, we are competing for time. So if you want an audience, and if you’re looking for your audience, what are they doing these days? Most people are on their phones. They’re on their phones or they’re on their iPads, whether they’re on the toilet, I’m sorry, or they’re riding on a train, or they’re sitting at a doctor’s office.

They’re on the toilet, they’re at the doctor’s office, and they’re on their phone. And you’re right, they’re on Instagram, they’re on TikTok, they’re on Facebook, they’re on YouTube, and it is all these shorts that people, the next thing they know, it’s 30 minutes. And so, you know, you’ve got a minute, you’ve got a, to catch people’s attention. And if you’ve got that over the course of time, you may build an audience, a following on that short little platform that maybe will come and follow you on YouTube and maybe begin to follow you somewhere else.

Josh: And see, that actually ends up being part of the problem when you think about being a content creator, a filmmaker, now. You know, it used to be the networks were competing for new show ideas, right? They would have the writers writing for those shows, but then when you started seeing unscripted shows, you would be looking for just good stories that you could come beside. So this was like Pawn Stars and all the history shows that were just huge hits during that period. So they would actually go out to try to find interesting stories. That’s how Home Town came about.

Now you’re more likely to get network attention if you have a very large following, because they fell in love with your 15-second shorts. It’s kind of like the publishing business has changed the same way. Do you want to sign an author who’s a good writer, or do you want to sign one that has two million followers? Most publishers choose the two million followers because of the revenue. They’re going to pick that. And so you find there’s just almost an anemia in good content. So that’s where there’s an opportunity, I think, for filmmakers and good content creators, a chance to make good stuff that can be discovered in time.

Jim: Here’s a great example. This is probably a year into Home Town being picked up by HGTV. The producer of the show, I mentioned, “Hey, I’m watching this show on YouTube. This guy that just makes...” I say show, it was just every once a week he dropped a video, and it was specifically about travel. And I thought, hey, Scripps owns Travel Network. They’re like, “This could be good.” “Y’all should check this guy out.” They did. They passed on it.

As of right at this moment, he has 105 million views on YouTube. Still making content every week with, if you go to his videos, roughly 100,000 views a week. And he gets to tell his story exactly the way he wants to, doing exactly what his viewers desire. And he didn’t have to do it under the traditional definition of TV, right?

Building Digital Communities

Hunter: That’s huge, too, especially because it’s not just about necessarily getting signed. It’s also about being able to very clearly identify your target market that resonates with your type of content, and then making sure that your content gets to that market. So, the last two things that both of you said, both Josh and now Jim, I mean, if that’s interesting to you, and you guys seem to be in agreement with that, maybe one day we should rope you into our concept of TBD LLC. We haven’t come up with a name for it yet, but we’ll have to talk to you guys about that at some point.

Christian: Well, what’s interesting, and what I was going to say is, you know, it used to be all about followers. You know, you guys mentioned followers and how many he had, and there was this time where every, you know, influencer cared about how many followers they had. And over the course of the last year, those influencers haven’t cared so much about how many followers they’ve had, necessarily. That hasn’t been as important. What has become more important is the quality of your followers. You know, are you making content for your followers that care about your content?

Because once you are making the content that your followers care about, and they are dedicated followers to your content, they will stay, and they then become part of your family. And they’re not just numbers, and they’re not fake numbers. And you are beginning to make a community, and you are telling stories to your community. And in a sense, what you’re doing is you’re creating a network digitally that is no different than your hotel physically, right? And so you’re inviting people to come to your digital hotel and to watch and be a part of the stories that you’re telling and the family that you’re telling. And so for those people that are interested in that content or those things, that’s where they’ll come.

Josh: Yeah. And just like our physical hotel, our digital hotel won’t have a jazz bar.

Jim: So.

Hunter: But maybe it will have a cooking school, perhaps. And maybe in that cooking school it will have recipes from France, and perhaps those recipes from France will be filmed in Normandy.

Josh: Well, the problem is I don’t know anybody in France. What about you, Jim?

Jim: We’ll know them pretty quick.

Christian: Yes, because I think that you should come with me to Normandy, and I think that I can introduce you to some people, and they can teach you about how to make chicken Flo, and they can teach you how to make a wonderful, delicious duck, a French duck, no less, created by another Flo. And then we have a veteran who used to dream about his mother’s breakfast eggs, and it was really a wartime recipe of macaroni and scrambled eggs. I don’t know about you, but it doesn’t sound too delicious for me. But that veteran, man, he couldn’t wait to eat that.

Jim: Got a story behind it for sure.

Christian: Got a story behind it for sure.

Josh: So, that’s exactly right. And that’s the point. We will have a cooking school where you can experience recipes that we go around the world collecting. And some of the first shows we’re going to make are going to be filmed right in Normandy. And so, we’re excited to be doing that this week when you see this show. We’re not sure about when that’s going to be released. We’re going to film all the content while we’re in Normandy with you guys. So, thanks for having us along on that trip.

Christian: This is... It’s going to be fun. So excited.

Josh: Yeah.

Christian: Yeah. You know, truthfully, I really believe, and I have from the beginning, I’ve said it on the podcast forever: God called me to make The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and I felt it and I believed it in my heart from the beginning. And it is a documentary film. But in the very beginning, I said he could be calling me to make this film, not to have this documentary film, but it could be just so that I would obey, and along the way, you know, he could be seeing if I could obey, and take me in another direction.

Now, I did end up with a documentary film, but on the way, really what I’ve ended up with is a community, a community that we have built in Normandy and that we have continued to build in the United States. And we have brought so many people from Normandy back to the United States who cook us delicious food, which is how we’ve learned about some of these recipes, and we are now taking people back from America to Normandy. And you know, as Hunter has said many times, what have you said many times to me, Hunter? The best thing that’s come out of this whole process wasn’t the documentary. It was all of the relationships along the way.

It was because, for me, at the end of the day, I feel like God has put us here on his green earth to be his love story to the world. And that’s what, for me, this film and this business is all about. We are here to truly love people and to tell that story of love. And I’m so thankful that you can be a part of that. You’re going to come with me to Normandy. You’re going to love on the French people there that you meet, and they’re going to love you right back with their time and with their food. And then we’re going to come back to the United States and we’re going to share that with your audience and with our audience. And it’s going to be great. And as always, we will continue to be Heirloom advocates.

Josh: Yeah. And we’re just ecstatic. We’re excited. And it’s going to be great.

Christian: Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for making time. I know you’re really busy. I know you would rather be sheetrocking, I’m sure.

Jim: So, I’d rather him be sheetrocking. We have a lot of money invested in this project. It would be nice to finish it, wouldn’t it?

Josh: Yeah. But it is cooler in here. We have air conditioning in this room.

Christian: That’s nice. Well, yeah. In Mississippi, it does get hot. So, if you guys are going to go down there and visit, make sure you take your deodorant and a fan. That’s what I would advise. So, it is a wonderful town, though.

Jim: Ain’t that true? When you forget deodorant down here, you know it.

Josh: Everybody else.

Jim: So, yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for having us on. Christian, thank you so much for what you do, and, you know, it’s a good work, like you said, to get good story, and particularly story of love and the love of God, down on camera. So, we appreciate that, and thank you for having us. It’s awesome.

The Power of Relationships in Storytelling

Christian: Yeah, absolutely. I really would encourage people to go visit Laurel, Mississippi. They have done an amazing job of investing in this town. You guys, I left the town, sadly, in 1980, and it was, you know, this beautiful Laurel, the City Beautiful, when I left. But over the course of time, when I came back, it did fall into disrepair. And I had this dream of coming back myself and, I kid you not, of doing exactly what you were doing. And so when I saw you begin to do that, I was just thrilled.

And so it is, they have invested in ways I never could and could not imagine, and they have given life to, you know, businesses there that people just would not have been able to thrive had they not invested in them. So, I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for bringing my hometown back.

Josh: Absolutely. Hey, we still got room for you.

Jim: Yeah, there’s plenty of room.

Christian: You know what? Be back. I have to tell you, I started making a plan last week of looking for a place to live down there.

Josh: Love it. Love it.

Christian: So, yeah. So, you don’t happen to know anybody that can, like, find houses or anything like that, do you? I’ve decided I’m going to come down there and I’m going to join your team and, you know, live in Laurel.

Josh: So, excellent. Hey, as long as you can hang sheetrock, that’s going to be fine.

Christian: I’m going to take a hammer and some nails and get busy.

Jim: A camera in your hand is probably what we...

Hunter: We’ll make sure my younger brother Jonah gets down there. He’ll love sheetrocking and everything else.

Jim: One last fun fact. Camp Shelby, Hunter, is roughly 20 minutes, 30 minutes down the road. And I found out a very interesting fact this week. 1918, Camp Shelby was named home of the 101st Airborne Division.

Hunter: That’s right.

Jim: Towards the end of World War I. It lasted for about two weeks.

Christian: Two weeks.

Jim: Because the war ended, and then the 101st, I believe, was moved to Wisconsin, I think, or something.

Hunter: Well, Wisconsin. Okay. They were a reserve unit of Wisconsin. That’s how they started.

Christian: Yeah. And then it kind of went back to Wisconsin. And did you know that the screaming eagle that is on their back, his name is Old Abe, and he really was a real screaming eagle, and he really did go out before them, and he scared people. He really had enemy commanders, there was an enemy commander that gave an order that says, “I don’t care. Whatever it takes, I want that eagle.” Yeah. And so he went back and he lived in the state house, though, they never got him. He lived in the state house until there was a fire, and then the smoke kind of made him very sick, and so eventually, sadly, unfortunately, he died.

Jim: I did not know that.

Christian: But then they stopped him and they kept him in there, as we do, until there was another fire, and that got him altogether, unfortunately.

Jim: Wasn’t meant to be.

Christian: But anyway, then they put him on the patch, and then it didn’t just become a reserve unit. The 101st Airborne Division became a real unit, and it was stationed down in TCOA reserve.

Hunter: Our official position as Documentary First is that reserve units are still real units. Just saying.

Christian: True. Absolutely.

Jim: Well, I wanted to make sure that we drew yet one more Mississippi connection.

Christian: Yes. Well, and let me tell you this. My uncle, my uncle Jodie, he started at Camp Shelby, and then he went to the 84th Infantry Division and he became a Railsplitter. And he landed on Omaha Beach in November, and he went on that Red Ball Express, and he went all the way up to the Netherlands, actually, to Holland, and he was part of the Battle of the Bulge, and he was in the war all the way through 1945. And he started at Camp Shelby. So, yep. We definitely have a lot of connections down there in Mississippi.

Jim: Full show.

Josh: As you like to say, have to be back soon.

Jim: Y’all come back now, you hear?

Christian: Listen, I’m going to advocate for that town. So, if y’all haven’t gone to Laurel, you need to, and go to Laurel Mercantile and go to Scotsman Company, and then there is quite the gift shop in, now, the Heirloom Hotel. But you know, guys, when I was putting on my shirt today, I thought, see, I don’t have any earrings on today, and I don’t know if you have any, but I thought it would be really cute if you made some little Heirloom Hotel earrings, because, you know, like you have, I have a bag hanging back here, but it’s blurred and you can’t see it. But I thought if you had little earrings, I could have worn those today.

Jim: Christian, you were so much easier than most of the ladies in my life. If I was to give them Heirloom earrings and they not be diamonds, I would probably be looked at pretty hard. So maybe Hunter can help get you some diamond Heirloom earrings.

Christian: Well, you know, I’m a great cheerleader. You know, when I was at Jones Junior High School, I worked every week to get the spirit stick, and I did most times, because I am the greatest cheerleader, and I’m a super big fan of y’all’s. I’m so glad to have you on the show, to introduce you to a whole new audience. I feel like y’all are fantastic documentary storytellers. I believe everybody should come and watch your YouTube channel and follow you on Instagram and anywhere else you are, and I think that they should watch any show you ever make, because I think y’all are amazing storytellers.

So, hats off to you, and thank you so much for coming to Normandy with us. I can’t wait for all the adventures I know we’re having right now. In fact, this comes out on June 4th, and I know right now we are having a blast with all of our French friends. So, I love Carentan. It’s going to be great. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to Documentary First, where we believe everybody has a story to tell and you can be the one to tell it. Bye, everybody.

Announcer: Stay up. Follow Documentary First on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn. This podcast was produced by Documentary First, edited and mixed by Jason Hoban, with music by Jeff Kurtenacker.