Peter Kelly's Archaeological Adventure in the Turks and Caicos

Documentary First, Episode 268 · with Peter Kelly, filmmaker of Salt and Silence · 37 minutes · January 1, 2026

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How do you film a documentary about shipwreck archaeology on a remote island?

Salt Cay, in the Turks and Caicos, has fewer than 50 residents, one little sundry shop and, as Christian puts it, a lot more donkeys. Filmmaker Peter Kelly spent 16 or 17 days there with The Shipwreck Survey, an archaeology field school that trains divers to study shipwrecks, for his upcoming documentary Salt and Silence. It was his first international shoot and the first project he directed and produced.

In Episode 268 of Documentary First, host Christian Taylor, a fellow Mississippian, talks with Peter about growing up in Mississippi, seeing Paul Saltzman make Prom Night in Mississippi about his high school in Charleston, and a 15-year film career that began with a volunteer day on a set in 2010.

Peter explains how baggage limits pushed him to a small camera kit, why he removed about 75% of his wardrobe from his bag, and what salt, wind, current and buoyancy did to the shoot. He also talks about the wreck of the Endymion, a British warship that sank in 1790, and why he wants viewers to protect cultural heritage rather than take it home.

In this episode, you’ll learn

  • How a video camera for Christmas, a teenage documentary about haunted places in the Mississippi Delta and Prom Night in Mississippi shaped Peter’s path to filmmaking
  • How a bartending shift led to a volunteer day on a film set and a 15-year career from grip to production designer, including Great Escapes with Morgan Freeman
  • Why Peter sees Mississippi, a small state, as an uplifting place for creative people
  • What an archaeology field school is, and how The Shipwreck Survey trains divers to study shipwrecks
  • Why Salt Cay’s remoteness made it the place to tell the story, and how the trip was paid for
  • How he packed for a one-person shoot: a Sony FX30, two lenses, an Ikelite housing and very few clothes
  • What filming underwater taught him about buoyancy, current, salt and broken gear
  • How the story shifted from “what is maritime archaeology?” to why it matters, and the plan to turn the film into a series

Questions and answers

What is The Shipwreck Survey field school?

The Shipwreck Survey is an archaeology field school that Peter Kelly says is run by Alex Hinton and Ruud Stelten, out of Australia. It takes people from all over the world to different places and trains them to dive shipwrecks from an archaeological perspective. It is a public field school, so you don't have to be associated with a university to attend, but you do need to know how to dive already. On the Salt Cay trip, Peter says participants ranged from 18 to north of 40.

Why did Peter Kelly film his documentary on Salt Cay?

Peter Kelly and Dr. Ruud Stelten of The Shipwreck Survey chose Salt Cay, in the Turks and Caicos, for its remoteness, which Peter says makes for a much more interesting story about the logistics. The island has one little sundry shop, and the closest grocery store is a 35-minute boat ride away on Grand Turk. The documentary idea came first, and his writing about the island was secondary. The Shipwreck Survey covered his hotel, airfare and food, and he covered his equipment with a little fundraising.

What camera gear did Peter Kelly bring to film underwater?

Because of baggage weight limits, Peter Kelly chose a small run-and-gun kit for Salt and Silence: a Sony FX30, a lightweight SmallRig carbon fiber tripod, two lenses and one lavalier. For underwater shots he bought an Ikelite housing with a big dome port, for less than renting a Nauticam housing. He borrowed another participant's drone, since small drones struggle in the island's wind. When his Sony ran out of battery or his GoPro 9 Black overheated, he shot on his phone.

What are the challenges of filming underwater in the Caribbean?

"If you have it, the Caribbean will break it," Peter Kelly says. On Salt Cay, salt in the air built up on his tripod legs, so he had to clean them once a day, and his flip-flops broke two days into the 17-day trip. Underwater, he found it tough to get his buoyancy right, which can mean shaky footage, and strong currents pushed him off shots he had lined up. He calls them welcomed challenges, because he has always dreamed of being an expedition filmmaker.

What is the documentary Salt and Silence about?

Peter Kelly set out to answer what maritime archaeology is, but the story that unfolded was the human connection: why the work is important. The film follows The Shipwreck Survey on Salt Cay, including the wreck of the Endymion, a fifth-rate British warship that sank in 1790, where 30 cannons lie on the ocean floor. Peter wants viewers to ask what they can do to protect cultural heritage, and to leave finds in place or give them to people who can take care of them. Beyond festivals and academic licensing, the team hopes to use it as a proof of concept for a series following The Shipwreck Survey around the world.

Chapters

  • 0:00 Introduction: The Art of Documentary Filmmaking
  • 1:30 Growing Up in Mississippi: The Roots of Peter’s Storytelling
  • 11:04 Discovering Salt Cay: The Heartbeat of the Documentary
  • 15:34 Creative Decision-Making: From Writing to Filming
  • 20:13 Filming on a Remote Island: Gear, Environment & Resourcefulness
  • 27:19 Maritime Archaeology: Uncovering Hidden History
  • 28:45 Surprises, Setbacks & Learning Opportunities on Location
  • 33:02 DocuView Deja View: Documentary Recommendations

DocuView Deja View picks

DocuView Deja View picks: Peter recommends Virunga (2014), a Netflix documentary about Virunga National Park. He calls it fascinating: it highlights the endangered animals that live there and the people keeping the park alive, and it exposes oil companies trying to wipe out the animals so the area is no longer protected and they can drill for oil.

Earlier in the conversation he also recommended Prom Night in Mississippi, Paul Saltzman’s documentary about the first integrated prom at Charleston High School, which Morgan Freeman offered to pay for. Every guest pick is in one place.

About the guest

Peter Kelly is a writer, explorer and filmmaker who grew up all over the Southeast, lived in Texas as a small child and moved to Mississippi in 2002. He graduated from high school in Charleston, Mississippi, in 2007, studied broadcast journalism at Ole Miss, where he did sports for the student news show NewsWatch 99, and later attended the University of South Alabama and Hinds Community College. After a volunteer day on a film set in 2010, he built a 15-year career in film, from grip and key grip to producing and directing, and for his last five or six years production design and art direction. He has worked on projects with Netflix, Apple TV Plus, Spotify, History Channel, Discovery Channel and Hallmark Channel, and was production designer on the History Channel series Great Escapes with Morgan Freeman. His travel writing has appeared in Travel + Leisure and Travel World Magazine. His company is PK Production Services.

About the film

Salt and Silence is Peter Kelly’s upcoming documentary about maritime archaeology on Salt Cay, filmed with The Shipwreck Survey. In 16 or 17 days on the island, Peter captured over 2,200 video clips, including about nine and a half hours of interviews with the Shipwreck Survey team, the participants and islanders. Among the wrecks is HMS Endymion, a fifth-rate British warship that sank in 1790. Monty Krauss joined as an executive producer, with two more friends co-executive producing. The plan is festivals, academic licensing to school and college libraries, and a proof of concept for a series following The Shipwreck Survey in different countries.

About Documentary First

For people who make documentaries and people who love them. Discover how documentaries actually get made, paid for and seen with filmmaker Christian Taylor. Plus DocuView Deja View, where every guest recommends a documentary worth watching. One week, a long-form conversation about a guest's journey, projects and lessons; the next, The Deep Dive, Christian's short solo reflection on one idea from that conversation. Guests have included Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy. Christian directed the award-winning documentary The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Nearly 300 conversations. Listen Notes top 5% worldwide. 4.8 on Apple Podcasts. New episodes every week. Follow the show · About the podcast · Support the show on Patreon

Resources mentioned

This episode is sponsored by Virgil Films Entertainment.

Full transcript

Introduction: The Art of Documentary Filmmaking

Christian Taylor: Today's episode is brought to you by our distribution partner, Virgil Films and Entertainment. Now, I've worked with Virgil personally, and I can tell you this is a company that champions independent filmmakers, with over 25 years of experience in film distribution and having partnered with brands like National Geographic, OWN, and Major League Baseball. Their films, including the mega hit Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo and the hit documentary Forks Over Knives, have landed on Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, Tubi, Apple TV, and more. They work directly with filmmakers and streaming platforms, and they offer a range of deals to fit different needs. They don't just distribute films, they elevate them, and truthfully, they're just really great people to work with. So if you want to learn more, head on over to virgilfilms.com.

And now on to the show. Welcome everybody to Documentary First, an inside look at the art, heart, and hard work of documentary filmmaking. I'm your host Christian Taylor, a documentary filmmaker myself. And every week I sit down with storytellers who capture real life on camera, one frame at a time, so we can learn from their experiences, sharpen our craft, and get inspired on our filmmaking journeys.

Today we're heading off the beaten path, way off, to one of the most remote islands in the Caribbean, Salt Cay in Turks and Caicos. My guest is fellow Mississippian Peter Kelly, writer, explorer, and filmmaker behind the upcoming documentary Salt and Silence. You may have seen his travel writing in Travel + Leisure and Travel World Magazine, where he captures the haunting beauty and harsh realities of Salt Cay, a place with fewer than 50 residents and a lot more donkeys, limited power, and endless salt flats and coral. And now Peter's bringing that world to the screen. So we're going to talk about what it takes to film in an environment like that, where the heat, salt, and remoteness test every ounce of creativity and endurance, and the packing may drive you crazy. Welcome, Peter, to Documentary First. It's so incredible to have you here.

Peter Kelly: Thanks. I'm really excited to be here. I can't wait to dive in.

Growing Up in Mississippi: The Roots of Peter’s Storytelling

Christian: Yeah. Well, now before we dive into the island, no pun intended, let's start at home. We're both Mississippi folks, so how did growing up in Mississippi shape your storytelling eye and your filmmaking journey?

Peter: That's a great question. You know, when I was a little kid, I grew up a lot. I grew up all over the Southeast. And when I was a really little kid, we lived in Texas, and I remember watching Indiana Jones and Star Wars and all these adventure movies as a kid. And I know a lot of kids, including myself, at one point were like, "Oh, I want to be those people." But I remember even as a little kid thinking, "I want to be the person that tells that story." And I've always kind of been fascinated by stories, and I've always been somewhat of a writer.

And then my family moved to Mississippi in 2002. I was going into 8th grade, and I got a video camera for Christmas one year, and it started with me and some friends making skateboard tapes, and bad skateboard tapes, because none of us were good, but we thought we were awesome. And then we actually shot our first documentary, which was all about haunted places in the Mississippi Delta.

Christian: There are a lot of those.

Peter: A lot of them. Yeah. And we had a lot of fun with it. And as kids, you know, you get so worked up over stuff, but we had a great time doing that. It was a really unique experience. It was not a good movie, but it was a lot of fun to make it.

Christian: I bet.

Peter: And so I kind of dove into it there. So I actually went to a high school in Charleston, Mississippi. And until 2008, the public school had a segregated prom, and there was a white prom and a black prom. And there was a documentary filmmaker, there is a documentary filmmaker, named Paul Saltzman who actually came to Mississippi to film a documentary about Charleston High School and about the first year the prom actually integrated. Now, the unique thing about that is, in this town, this is Morgan Freeman's hometown, and Morgan Freeman actually agreed that if the school would integrate the prom, he would pay for it. And so he [unclear] the bill. Yeah, it's pretty neat, and it's a great documentary. It's called Prom Night in Mississippi. It's a great doc if you haven't seen it.

But kind of combining my love of storytelling and seeing Paul work on that project... Now, that was the year after I graduated high school, unfortunately.

Christian: Which was what year?

Peter: I graduated in 2007. The prom was integrated in 2008. And so, a very unfortunate thing, because a vast majority of the students vied for and pushed for an integrated prom for years and years prior to this, and the public school got away with it by saying it's not a school-sanctioned event, and it was hosted by parent committees. And that's a long story for another day. But I just always loved storytelling, and I got this camera and started making these documentary films, and having Morgan Freeman be in my hometown, I kind of connected with that.

And I ended up, I don't know why, something in my head kind of told me, "Oh, you'll never work in film. It's a pipe dream." And so I ended up going to Ole Miss and studied broadcast journalism.

Christian: [unclear] That's where my dad and mom both went, and my husband went to law school.

Peter: There you go. Yeah. So I went...

Christian: I loved living in Oxford.

Peter: Yeah, Oxford's a great town.

Christian: It is. And in fact, that ties us, our Morgan Freeman connection, right there. I ended up eating with Morgan Freeman at City Grocery. And so, yeah, I ate dinner with Morgan Freeman.

Peter: I love it. Yeah. Well, it's funny. When I was a kid, we used to go out to him and his ex-wife, Myrna Colley-Lee, would go to their house for, like, parties and Halloween events, and my mom and [unclear] are really good friends. And I remember telling him when I was, like, a junior in high school, I said, "Mr. Morgan, I'm going to work with you one day in the movies."

And so I went to Ole Miss and [unclear] around. Oh, sorry. I don't know if this is PG-13 or not.

Christian: We'll buzz it out. We'll buzz it out.

Peter: Buzz around. I went to Ole Miss and [unclear] not taking school seriously. I was studying broadcast journalism, and I did the news show, the student news show, NewsWatch 99, and was on-air talent for the sports team, and that was a lot of fun and got to do some field reporting. But I realized very quickly I didn't want to do broadcast journalism, and so I ended up just having a great time. I transferred away, went to South Alabama.

Christian: What year was that?

Peter: University of South Alabama's in Mobile.

Christian: Yeah. But what year did you do that?

Peter: Oh, what year? I never graduated from Ole Miss. I transferred after a year and a half from being there.

Christian: Okay.

Peter: And so I went to South Alabama for a semester. Had no idea what I wanted to do. So I dropped out, worked in sales, worked in a hotel, worked for a credit repair company that helped people...

Christian: Gracious.

Peter: ...negotiate negative items on their credit. Miserable. I had, like, forgotten what it was to be happy. So I hit pause on life, moved back to Jackson, decided to get back in school, and I went to Hinds Community College. And while I was at Hinds, I was bartending for Another Broken Egg Cafe.

Christian: I know that one.

Peter: Yeah. And I was actually one of the first waiters they hired here in the Jackson store, the Ridgeland store. And so I was bartending, and this guy came in and he was talking about movies. I was like, "I love movies. I used to want to do that." And he's like, "Oh, well, you know, my friend's dad is working on a set tomorrow." This was back in 2010. He's like, "I think it's a volunteer-only thing, because it's for nonprofits." And he said, "You know, if you want to go, I'm sure he'd be happy to have you." So I volunteered, and I just went out on a film set, took the day off, and [unclear] paid, and helped grip, and absolutely fell [unclear].

Christian: How it starts.

Peter: Yeah, it was awesome. And then I ended up, you know, one set turned to two, turned to four, turned to eight, turned to a 15-year career in film that spread across... started as a grip, [unclear], and then key grip. And then did a lot of producing, did a lot of directing. And then I've worked on projects... my last, I guess, five or six years, I was in the art department, production designing and art directing. But I've worked on projects with Netflix, Apple TV Plus, Spotify, History Channel, Discovery Channel, Hallmark Channel. And funny enough, in 2021, I think it was 2021, I got hired on as the production designer for a documentary series called Great Escapes on the History Channel.

Christian: Right?

Peter: And it's with Morgan Freeman. And so I actually went up to him. I said, "Mr. Morgan, I don't know if you remember this, but I told you in high school one day I was going to work with you, and today is that day." He's like, "I absolutely remember that." So that was kind of a cool moment for me.

Christian: That is super cool. Super cool. And I'm so glad you kind of got your bio in there, because I forgot to read your bio in the beginning.

Peter: Oh, good. I mean, it all feeds together, right? So...

Christian: Yeah, it really, really does. Well, do you think now, you're a storyteller, you know, you've got this documentary coming out, do you think, like, growing up in the South kind of guided your storytelling tradition? Like the slower pace and the love of place and people, did that influence the way you kind of approach your stories at all?

Peter: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up. I was going to mention that earlier, and I got lost in my own thought. So yeah, that was one of the things about, you know, Mississippi and the Mississippi Delta, and moving here: it is a slower speed, a slower speed of life, not slow people, right? And that's something I think that the rest of the world often misconstrues about Mississippi. There are a lot of incredibly brilliant and talented people.

Christian: Yeah, we're sitting here, right?

Peter: Yeah, that's right. But, and storytellers specifically, I mean, you have Eudora Welty, you have Richard Grant. It's just so many. Absolutely. Yeah. So many authors and so many writers and storytellers and filmmakers. I mean, even today, John Norris and Tate Taylor have turned Natchez, Mississippi, on its head with [unclear] Letter Studios.

But yeah, Mississippi, I think that kind of sparked that connection for me, and seeing a lot of these storytellers, and because it is a smaller state. Prior to living here, we lived in San Antonio, Texas. Moved here, and it was very much culture shock. And then as an adult, I started working in film, and then I moved to Houston, and then I moved back, and then I moved back to Houston, Texas, and then I moved back in 2020. And from Houston, which is almost five or six million people, to a state with like 2.9 million people. So the state has a fraction of the population of the city.

And when you step away and then come back, you can really take advantage of the fact that you get the opportunity to see that there's a lot of opportunity in a place like this. And there's a lot of opportunity to make moves. And you don't have to be a millionaire to be a mover and shaker. And if you want to do it, the small population means that there's likely somebody who hasn't done it before. And if that's the case, it's likely that the people who are hearing about it are going to be excited about it, and they're going to support it and uplift it. And so it's a very uplifting space for creative people, and businesses, for that matter.

I mean, Mississippi has a hugely growing economy, and it's something in the ballpark of, I don't want to tell you the wrong number, but there's billions of dollars currently being invested in developing infrastructure for AI in the state. So, but yeah, Mississippi as a storytelling place and as an artistic community is, I honestly believe, unlike any other.

Christian: It's very, very different and unique. There are a lot of possibilities there. The other thing I think is interesting is that because it is a small state, you can crisscross with creative people who have the ability to uplift you as well, and, you know, connect with you as well. And so I think you're in a great place for sure.

Discovering Salt Cay: The Heartbeat of the Documentary

Christian: Now, you know, you've written... let's turn to your new project. You've written about Salt Cay, which, for people who don't know about Salt Cay, it's in the Turks and Caicos, and some people say "Kaikos." How...

Peter: "Kikos."

Christian: So you've written beautifully about it, and you've written about it in Travel World Magazine and Travel + Leisure. So for those listeners who haven't read those pieces, can you describe what drew you to this island, and how it became the heart of this next film?

Peter: Yeah, that's a great question. Turks and Caicos is... I went when I was a very small kid, not to Salt Cay, but I went to Providence [unclear]. And I love history. I love storytelling, obviously, but I love history. I love anthropology. I love archaeology. I love the idea of the science of studying the past world, and the people who get to actually put their hands on the history that made us and the history that brought us to be where we are today. And I also love to scuba dive. I'm a big diver. And so I started looking for field schools, and I was curious. I was like, this is...

Christian: What's a field school? You have to remember you're talking to novices here.

Peter: Yes. Yes. Yes. So a field school, archaeology field schools are basically programs where people, typically college students, can go and sign up and go on a trip and learn how to do archaeology. And so I was looking at field schools, and I was curious about, you know, the storytelling behind field schools and the process. And I stumbled upon a field school called The Shipwreck Survey, run by Alex Hinton and Ruud Stelten, and it's out of Australia, and they take people from all over the world to different places across the planet and train them how to dive shipwrecks from an archaeological perspective, and how to study the actual cultural history that's hidden beneath the waves and sometimes protected and sometimes deteriorating.

And so I reached out to Ruud, and I talked to him on the phone, via email, a couple times, and then we chatted over Google Meet a couple of times, and he and I just kind of built a connection. And I realized, like, this is really cool what you're doing. This is a really neat program. This is unlike anything else, because it's also a public field school. You don't have to be associated with a university to attend. Anybody can go.

Christian: That's really unique. Interesting.

Peter: Really unique. Yeah. Super cool.

Christian: Is there an age limit?

Peter: No. No, there's not. No, there's not.

Christian: Head over there.

Peter: There were people when I went down... there were people from 18 to, I think, north of 40.

Christian: Do they teach you how to dive, or do you have to know how to dive in advance?

Peter: You got to know how to dive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they teach you how to dive, technical diving, but...

Christian: They teach you how to dive strategically for archaeology.

Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was chatting with him, and we basically kind of came upon the mutual decision, like, this is a cool story. This is a cool idea. Let's tell it. Where do we want to tell it from? Because they offer different programs throughout different times of the year. And so he started telling me, he told me about Salt Cay, and at first I was kind of interested, and then told me more, and we talked about its remoteness. And, you know, the closest grocery store to Salt Cay... they have one little sundry shop on the island that's, you know, a 12 by 12 room, and they have, like, five goods. The closest grocery store is a 35-minute boat ride away on Grand Turk. And so it is remote remote. It's a very cool spot.

And my first thought was, "Oh man, this is cool. I'm going to get to go to a beautiful tropical lush island." And our boat pulls up, and other than the crystal clear bathtub blue water, it was kind of a hellscape. It was low-lying bush, [unclear] scrub bush with thorns this long. They're, you know, 2 to three inches long. But the people, from the time we landed, were lovely. It's just a really tight-knit community. And so getting to Salt Cay...

Creative Decision-Making: From Writing to Filming

Christian: Yeah. You're skipping ahead. You're skipping ahead. I'm going to slow you down. I'm going to slow you down. Come on. We got to go back for a second. Yeah. Now you're skipping ahead to the island and to the people, but I want to take you back to the decision-making.

Peter: Yeah.

Christian: All right. So I'm going to take you back to the decision-making. You called them. You decided, okay, this is a great place, we're going to go to Salt Cay. Now, did you decide, "I'm going to write a story," or did you decide, "I'm going to make a documentary"? And then how is all this being funded?

Peter: Yeah, great question. So after talking with Dr. Stelten and the crew at The Shipwreck Survey, and we did decide to go to Salt Cay, the decision was made based on its remoteness. We wanted to tell a good story, and the first thought was, okay, this is a documentary. Right before I went, I really dug in on a lot of research and realized, oh man, this would be a really great article too. So the idea of the documentary came first. The writing was absolutely secondary and just kind of tacked on. But the decision to do Salt Cay was rooted in its remoteness, and the fact that, considering how remote it is, it just makes for a much more interesting story of how do you organize the logistics of this.

Christian: Have you ever done this before? Because, you know, there are people that specialize in sort of this extreme, you know, photojournalism type stuff, and they have had a lot of years with this. Is this something you've been doing all your life?

Peter: No. Yeah, so I've worked in film for the last 15 years, but a project like this, an undertaking like this, this was my first time. First international shoot, first project that I've directed and produced.

Christian: Did you do this by yourself? Are you, like, a one-person crew?

Peter: Yeah. So I got this all situated and set up and talked with Dr. Stelten from The Shipwreck Survey, and I got him on board with the project and got him really excited. So they actually covered the cost of me coming out on the trip.

Christian: Okay.

Peter: And so they paid for my hotel and my airfare and my food while I was out there. Now, I...

Christian: I'm sure it wasn't much, since you're living on a hellscape.

Peter: Pretty much. Yeah. So there are actually some really nice houses on the island, and some really nice, like, hotel, Airbnb type stays. So, you know, I was kind of put up in a bunk house with them, and it was a really cool experience. But they covered the bill on that front, and, you know, I basically had to cover all of my equipment and do a little fundraising and then [unclear].

Christian: That is not... Listen, you're making that sound like that is no problem. But I have taken a film crew to France for three weeks, and I had to decide on the equipment, which is in itself... and this is not even, like, a hard, difficult journey. Deciding on the camera gear, I'm not even going underwater, and it's difficult to decide what camera gear, what size, what is allowed, you know, what can we get in, you know, just the different weights. Just the things that made my head explode. So I cannot imagine what you were having to jump through to think about, because I did read you were only able to go on certain planes, and you only could take certain luggage, and I'm thinking, how the heck did you make that happen?

Peter: No, honestly, that was helpful. It was helpful because of that. So having weight limits on baggage, I knew, okay, I'm not going to be able to take the world with me. And realistically, I identified in advance the style in which I'm going to be shooting. I mean, we're not going for art with this. The story is the art. This is run-and-gun shooting. And so I opted for a small kit. Instead of, you know, bringing some big camera, or a RED camera, or a Blackmagic camera or something like that, I got a Sony FX30. I got a small little, I think the SmallRig brand, carbon fiber tripod, something lightweight and easy to tote around. I only took two lenses. I took one lavalier.

Filming on a Remote Island: Gear, Environment & Resourcefulness

Christian: Did you have a drone?

Peter: Somebody else on the trip brought their own drone, and so I opted not to bring a drone, because they already had one there for doing the archaeology research, and so I just borrowed it to go get some shots.

Christian: Okay. That was helpful.

Peter: Pardon me.

Christian: That was helpful. Although they are making drones smaller and smaller and...

Peter: Yeah.

Christian: ...more maneuverable, you know.

Peter: Yeah, for sure. And actually, that's something I've looked into for this trip. But because of the geography of Salt Cay... Salt Cay is famous because of salt production. And what makes it so great for salt production is the highly saline water. It's really saline, there's a lot of salt in the water, and it's really dry, and there's a lot of wind coming across the island. And so the smaller the drone, the harder time it has keeping up with wind. And so, yeah, I just let somebody else bring a big drone, and not a big big drone, but I think it was a Mavic or something like that.

But yeah, and then I bought a camera housing. I was going to rent a Nauticam underwater housing, and for cheaper than buying the Nauticam housing, or renting the housing, I was able to buy an Ikelite housing for the Sony FX, with a big dome port, so that it created a little space between the lens and the water, and so you could kind of capture... I'm sure you've seen those shots where you could see above the water and below at the same time. So yeah, I was able to get that. And getting it all packed together was not so much an issue. Deciding how many layers of clothes I needed, or what clothes I could sacrifice, that was where the...

Christian: Well, that's because you knew that the filming was the priority. So, we're taking this equipment, and so I can decide on that, and we know that if I have to only wear swimming trunks, or if I have to wear one pair of clothing, well, I'll deal with that. But then, you know, okay, well, I'm going to have more than that. So exactly how much more do I have? So how much more did you have?

Peter: Yeah. No, great question. I actually sacrificed a lot of my clothing options. I packed, and then I removed about 75% of my wardrobe.

Christian: Oh my gosh.

Peter: So I didn't pack a single pair of underwear. I got rid of all my underwear. I packed three pairs of socks, two pairs of long pants that are really, like, fine, thin, quick-drying pants.

Christian: Yep.

Peter: And I packed two swimsuits. I packed two cotton t-shirts and two long sleeve, like, sun shirts, like fishing shirts. And those are the only clothes I packed.

Christian: Holy cow. Did you pack in a backpack and, like, a carry-on or something?

Peter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a brand called Cotopaxi. They make this fantastic travel bag, and it's not endorsed, but they make this fantastic backpack, and they...

Christian: How do you spell that, by the way? We may link that below.

Peter: Yeah, they're great. It's C-O-T-O-P-A-X-I.

Christian: Okay.

Peter: And it's the, like, Alpha 45 [unclear] is the backpack I took. It's fantastic. It fit all of my clothes. It fit all of my gear for my camera. And then all of my dive gear, I have another Cotopaxi. It's a big duffel bag. It's like a 70 liter duffel bag. So I put all my dive equipment in there and then put that inside of a big mesh dive bag and checked that onto the airplane. But yeah, all of my camera stuff I carried on in my Cotopaxi bag, and then my underwater camera housing, I actually carried it on as my personal item for the plane. So...

Christian: You're tricky like that. Okay.

Peter: And it worked out great. I'm looking off screen because I've got my gear here next to me, and I'm trying to see it. So this was the housing.

Christian: Okay.

Peter: Yeah. And it worked.

Christian: If you guys are only listening, you really ought to check on YouTube and check out the housing that he just showed you. What else you got there? Can you show us? I love visual.

Peter: Sure enough. So here's the housing. Here is the dome port that I was mentioning a second ago. This is...

Christian: Who makes the housing?

Peter: Ikelite. I-K-E-L-I-T-E. And this dome port is great because it's...

Christian: A big, see, a big bubble.

Peter: That's it. That distance between the lens and the water's edge, so that you can actually get a little bit more, you get to see a little bit more. It kind of opens up the...

Christian: Yeah.

Peter: ...this space, the viewing space.

Christian: Were you happy with the footage?

Peter: Yeah, I am. I am. So I was there for 16 or 17 days, and in that time period I ended up capturing over 2,200 different separate video clips.

Christian: Okay.

Peter: So I had about 2,200 clips, and that includes about nine and a half hours' worth of interviews, and those were interviews with The Shipwreck Survey team, the people who were participating, and islanders, people who live on the island. And that's kind of the approach I wanted to take, too. You know, I wanted to capture a holistic look at not just Salt Cay, or not just The Shipwreck Survey, not just the science, but why the area, why... I'm sorry, why Salt Cay, and the historical significance, as well as, you know, kind of the modern take too. You know, you've got 40 people, 40-plus people, living on this island full-time. How do they feel about, you know, people coming out and scuba diving and doing this archaeological research on their islands, and what is life for them like now? So it really is an exposition on maritime archaeology, but I wanted to kind of highlight the whole world in which...

Christian: Yeah. So what's the story arc, beginning, middle, and end? What is your, you know, how are you putting the story together? What's the question you're answering? What do you want your audience to walk away thinking and feeling?

Peter: That's a great question. When I first started putting this together and first started getting this project together, the question was, "What is maritime archaeology? What does that mean?" Like, people talk about scuba diving and shipwreck diving and watch movies like Fool's Gold and want to go find treasure. And I've just always been a curious person, and I've always wanted to know, you know, what's the reality there? And that's the question I set off to answer for myself.

In doing so, now that I've gone and I've filmed and I've looked back at these interviews many, many times, the story that's really unfolding is, what's the human connection? Why... instead of what is it, it's why is it important? You know, one of the wrecks we do, excuse me, is the Endymion shipwreck. It's a fifth-rate British warship that sunk in 1790. And if you go out to the spot today, I mean, there's 30 cannons laying on the ocean floor, and we found a lead sounding weight, and five minutes before they wrecked, that sounding weight was in the water identifying their depth. So there is a story there.

Maritime Archaeology: Uncovering Hidden History

Peter: And so being able to see the deterioration of these shipwrecks and the deterioration of the island of Salt Cay, it is something that we are never going to get back. And so getting to be a part of the memory, and getting to help build part of that memory and protect that memory and protect the history, I think is a big part of the reason I did it.

As far as story arc goes, the question is, why are they doing this? And to capture that, it was a lot of identifying the culture, identifying what they are actually doing, and getting to see this team actually get their hands wet and get their hands into the sand and uplift pieces of wood with copper sheathing on the side that belonged to a ship years and years ago. And instead of bringing it to the surface, they'd put it right back down and cover it right back up to protect it. And I think that's an important piece of this.

I think the story arc is just that. It's an exploration of what is it, why are we doing it. I want people to watch this movie and think, "Wow, what can I do to protect cultural heritage, and what can I do to help pursue the craft of maritime archaeology?" while also making sure that people, when they do watch it, if they go and find something in the ocean, like a gold coin or an old piece of an old musket ball or cannonball or whatever, either leave it there or give it to the right people who can take care of it and make sure it doesn't disintegrate and get completely destroyed.

Surprises, Setbacks & Learning Opportunities on Location

Christian: Yeah. Well, and what is your hope for what will happen to this film?

Peter: Yeah, that's a great question. So we ended up, "we" being, after I shot this, I actually ended up partnering with an old friend, Monty Krauss, who's kind of stepped in as an executive producer, and two additional friends that are also co-executive producing. The original thought was, let's shoot this thing. Let's get it into film festivals. And if that doesn't work, then let's work on selling it into the academic world, school libraries, college libraries, licensing it out so that they can, you know, use it as a teaching piece for their archaeology programs and their anthropology programs.

And then, in the process of getting this thing shot and running through interviews, we've started talking, and that is still part of the plan. But I think our next steps are actually going to be to try to utilize this piece as a proof of concept for a series to highlight The Shipwreck Survey and the work they are doing in different countries around the world. So going and following them on different specific shipwrecks, different specific countries, and being able to capture the people and the interaction and the engagement, while also diving into the actual history and the significance of their findings.

Christian: That sounds fascinating. I think that would definitely be interesting to pitch. Now, when you were doing this work, let's talk a little bit about... I want to know two things. One, what was the most surprising thing that happened to you, or the thing that surprised you most? And then talk about the hardest challenges of filming in that kind of environment, the things that gave you the most challenges.

Peter: Yeah, I can actually answer both questions...

Christian: Same time.

Peter: Yeah, they're kind of tied together. So something that was really surprising as well as challenging was the fact that if you have it, the Caribbean will break it.

Christian: Doesn't matter what you have, it will probably... Did you take backups?

Peter: I did. I took so many backups. The one thing I didn't take enough backups of was flip-flops and shoes to walk around in. And I was surprised by that. I mean, the salt in the air, I ended up having to clean my tripod legs once a day, because the salt in the air would accumulate, and I couldn't shut or open the tripod legs. Actually had to wash my tripod, which is a weird thing I never thought I'd really have to do. And then my flip-flops broke, I think, two days into the 17-day trip. And so I was running around in duct tape flip-flops, interchanged with some tennis shoes when my socks weren't drying on a banister.

But the challenging piece of that, I think, as a filmmaker: this was my first time really doing any kind of major filmmaking underwater. I was breaking new wind, so to speak. So it was a challenge trying to get my buoyancy right as a diver. And if you don't have your buoyancy right, you're going to end up with shaky camera footage, moving up and down.

Christian: That's hard enough to get right when you're on land.

Peter: That's right. Yeah, 100%. And so getting my buoyancy right was really tough. I was surprised by how tough that was. And then the current, the current underwater. Several of our dives, there was a lot of current. I'd get a shot lined up like, "Oh, this is perfect." And then I'd start getting pushed, and the other person get pushed the other way. I was like, "No."

Christian: Yeah. Kept driving away.

Peter: I think just dealing with the elements... it was surprising, and it was challenging, but honestly, it was kind of one of those welcomed surprises and welcomed challenges. I've had a dream my entire life of being an expedition filmmaker and an explorational filmmaker, and so I knew going into it that there would be some of that. I just... I don't know. I think it's all in perspective. You know, you're going to have problems. Anybody who's worked in film for any amount of time will tell you stuff's going to break, and things aren't going to work out, and stuff changes.

But I think being able to embrace that and roll with the punches, because at the end of the day, you can either get pissed off and be upset that something didn't work out, or you can find a new way to tell a story and shift and change gears.

Christian: That is the beauty of filmmaking. And I remember when I learned to be a filmmaker, one of the first things I did was watch a Ken Burns master class, and he basically said you just got to get out there and do it. Just film class doesn't really help you, you just got to do it. And then he said, "Being a filmmaker is solving a million problems." And you just can't stop. You just have to keep solving the problems. And that's really what it is. Every single time you're out there, you're going to run into problems. Be it weather, be it people, be it emotions, be it script problems, you know, and everything is always going to change.

Peter: Yep.

Christian: Always. And you just have to be nimble and be able to flex. And I think the people that have that ability to ride those waves, no pun intended...

Peter: Yeah.

Christian: ...and figure out how you can get the story that's coming to you, I think those are the filmmakers that can find the success, as opposed to fighting what's happening.

Peter: Yeah, I think so. And I think, to build on that, going back to what you had said earlier as well, when you get those challenges, yes, you can prepare, and, you know, it's nice if you have a 5-ton grip truck right behind you, but at some point you just got to do it. Casey Neistat is a documentary filmmaker and a creator, and he's got an interesting quote. People always ask him, like, "What's the best camera? What should I get?" And his response is always, "Whatever camera helps you tell the story, and whatever camera is going to capture the story."

And I love that quote, because even on this shoot, there were times when my Sony ran out of battery, or, I also had a GoPro 9 Black with me, and my GoPro kept overheating because it's a little bit of an older model. And so there were multiple times where I just picked up my phone and started shooting.

Christian: Exactly. I was going to say, it's almost whatever phone you have with you at the moment, because sometimes a story happens and you got your iPhone with you, and you got to use that. And thank goodness iPhones now are movie worthy. So...

Peter: Yes.

DocuView Deja View: Documentary Recommendations

Christian: Yeah, that is a great quote to end on. You have been so generous with your time, and we are now almost at your time. And before we end, we have a beautiful segment here called DocuView Deja View, where filmmakers share a documentary that they love. You've already shared one, which is Prom Night in Mississippi. Do you have another documentary you'd like to share with our audience before you leave?

Peter: Yeah, one of my favorite documentaries I've ever seen is Virunga. It's a Netflix documentary, and it's about Virunga National Park, and it's fascinating. They highlight the animals and the people who are keeping this park alive and protecting the animals that are endangered that live there. But it also kind of exposes some of the seedy underhandings of some oil companies that are trying to basically wipe out some of these animals so that it's no longer a protected area, and they can go in and dig for oil, drill for oil. But it's a great documentary, Virunga. And it's on...

Christian: How do you spell it?

Peter: V-I-R-U-N-G-A.

Christian: All right. Well, there you have it, everybody. We need to check that out. It's always wonderful to learn about new documentaries. So thank you for sharing both of those with you, and your time. I'm really looking forward to seeing this next new work. Everybody can follow you by going to your website, I'm sure. So why don't you tell everybody about your website?

Peter: Yep. My website is PK, that's P as in Peter, K as in Kelly, [unclear]services.com. And my social media handle is the same across the board. It's P-C-K-E-L-L-Y 1369. So that's PC Kelly 1369.

Christian: All right, everybody, there you have it. Well, Peter, thank you so much for being with us today. It was a delight to talk to you. I learned a lot. I'm sure our listeners did, too. Everybody, thank you so much for listening to Documentary First, where we believe everybody has a story to tell, and you can be the one to tell it. Bye, everybody.

Hey, everybody. This podcast is brought to you by Documentary First Productions, and we need your support so that we can keep preserving history. If you could go over and grab some merch or watch our films at documentaryfirst.com, you'll help us keep making awesome documentaries and sharing the stories that matter, and also bring amazing filmmakers and their wonderful films to the world. So thank you so much for listening, and thank you for visiting documentaryfirst.com.

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