Can a First-Time Filmmaker Make a Movie With a Virtual Team?

Documentary First, Episode 1 · with co-hosts Josh Lindsay and Jason Rugg · 15 minutes · March 7, 2019

Listen: Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all apps · Watch: YouTube · Read: Full transcript

How did the Documentary First podcast begin?

Documentary First began in March 2019 as a behind-the-scenes look at The Girl Who Wore Freedom, then in post-production, and at one first-time filmmaker’s journey. In this first episode, co-host Josh Lindsay talks with director Christian Taylor about how she got her start, with researcher Jason Rugg along. The three go back a long way: Josh joined VeggieTales in 1999, lived across the street from Christian, and his future wife lived with her. Jason interned with Christian about five years before the episode.

Christian traces her path from Capitol Hill radio and television news, theater and broadcasting studies and the National Players touring company to volunteering at Wheaton College radio after the industry went digital, and then a voice-over career in Chicago. She explains why voice-over is so hard to break into, why she diversified into producing, and why she thinks being a good mom made her a good producer.

She also describes how the film was being made: in two languages and two countries, with a fully virtual team, a small budget and five or six editors. Christian makes the case that if she can make a film, anyone can, and the hosts lay out what the podcast would cover in the episodes ahead.

In this episode, you’ll learn

  • How Christian Taylor, Josh Lindsay and Jason Rugg know each other, from VeggieTales to the house across the street
  • What cinema verite means, and why it describes The Girl Who Wore Freedom
  • How Christian went from Capitol Hill news, theater and the National Players to a voice-over career in Chicago
  • Why voice-over is one of the most competitive parts of the entertainment industry, and why Christian diversified into producing
  • Why Christian says finding the right people was the most important thing from the very beginning
  • The Ken Burns advice Christian lives by: you know nothing until you make your first one
  • What it takes to make a film in two languages and two countries with a virtual team
  • Why so many projects collapse in post-production

Questions and answers

What was the first episode of Documentary First about?

The first episode of Documentary First introduced the podcast as a behind-the-scenes look at The Girl Who Wore Freedom and a first-time filmmaker’s journey. Co-host Josh Lindsay asked director Christian Taylor how she got her start, with researcher Jason Rugg along. They covered her background, how she built her team, how the film was being made and the topics the show would cover next.

What is cinema verite?

On Episode 1 of Documentary First, researcher Jason Rugg defined cinema verite as a style of filmmaking characterized by realistic, typically documentary, motion pictures that avoid artificial and artistic effect and are generally made with simple equipment. Christian Taylor said the definition describes The Girl Who Wore Freedom very much: it tries to tell the truth of a story, as simply as possible, on a small budget.

How did Christian Taylor go from voice-over to producing?

Christian Taylor worked on Capitol Hill in radio and television news, studied theater and broadcasting in college and toured with the National Players before building a voice-over career in Chicago. She says voice-over is one of the most competitive parts of the entertainment industry, and that making a good living meant diversifying. About 15 years before this episode she began volunteering on projects with producers Lars Allberg and Sandy Gordon, cut her teeth on producing and found a real knack for it, which she credits to her years in the industry and to being a good mom.

How was The Girl Who Wore Freedom made with a virtual team?

Christian Taylor says The Girl Who Wore Freedom was made in two languages and two countries, with a team that never worked in the same place. Because no single technology existed to help, the team cobbled tools together to get things done. At the time of Episode 1 the film was in post-production, with five or six people editing, including assistant editor Jason Rugg, plus translators, transcribers and subtitlers, and it was set to screen in Normandy that summer.

What advice does Christian Taylor give first-time documentary filmmakers?

Christian Taylor says that if she can make a film, anyone can: you need a better understanding of the industry and the belief that you can do it. She quotes Ken Burns, one of her favorite documentary filmmakers, who told her you can study all you want but you know nothing until you make your first one. She also warns that most projects collapse in post-production, a topic she promised to cover on the podcast.

Chapters

  • 0:00 Welcome, and a tangled web from VeggieTales
  • 1:22 A story that landed in her lap
  • 2:11 Trivia: what is cinema verite?
  • 3:01 Christian’s background: Capitol Hill, theater and radio
  • 4:23 Building a voice-over career
  • 5:43 Diversifying into producing in Chicago
  • 6:46 Who else is in the boat: building the team
  • 7:51 If I can do this, anyone can
  • 9:11 Just go do it: advice from the producer of Elf
  • 9:58 Two languages, two countries and a virtual team
  • 11:19 Post-production and why the credits are so long
  • 12:09 What’s ahead on the podcast
  • 14:16 Closing and next time

About the hosts

Christian Taylor is the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom, her first film. She worked on Capitol Hill in radio and television news, studied theater and broadcasting in college, and toured with the National Players. After volunteering at Wheaton College radio, she built a voice-over career in Chicago, then began producing alongside Lars Allberg and Sandy Gordon. She runs Taylor Productions.

Josh Lindsay hosted this first episode. He co-hosts the movie podcast The Movie Proposal with Skye Jethani and worked at VeggieTales for three years starting in 1999.

Jason Rugg is the show’s researcher and one of the assistant editors on The Girl Who Wore Freedom. He interned with Christian about five years before this episode.

About the film

The Girl Who Wore Freedom is a documentary that Christian Taylor calls a story that landed in her lap and that she felt compelled to tell. It was filmed in Normandy, in two languages and two countries, by a team that worked entirely virtually. When this episode was recorded, the film was in post-production with five or six editors, translators, transcribers and subtitlers, and was set to screen in Normandy that summer.

More from this series

The story of the film continues on Making The Girl Who Wore Freedom. The next episode covers the inspiration behind the story and how it started.

About Documentary First

For people who make documentaries and people who love them. Discover how documentaries actually get made, paid for and seen with filmmaker Christian Taylor. Plus DocuView Deja View, where every guest recommends a documentary worth watching. One week, a long-form conversation about a guest's journey, projects and lessons; the next, The Deep Dive, Christian's short solo reflection on one idea from that conversation. Guests have included Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy. Christian directed the award-winning documentary The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Nearly 300 conversations. Listen Notes top 5% worldwide. 4.8 on Apple Podcasts. New episodes every week. Follow the show · About the podcast · Support the show on Patreon

Resources mentioned

Full transcript

Welcome, and a tangled web from VeggieTales

Josh Lindsay: Welcome to Documentary First, a behind-the-scenes look at The Girl Who Wore Freedom, an inside look at a first-time filmmaker’s journey. I’m your host, Josh Lindsay, and with me is Christian Taylor, our filmmaker.

Christian Taylor: Hey, how you doing?

Josh: I’m doing great, Christian. Good to see you.

Christian: Thank you.

Josh: And with us, as always, is our trusty dusty research extraordinaire, Jason Rugg.

Jason Rugg: Hey there.

Josh: So, I am the host of the podcast, and if you are a podcast listener and you love movies, you may have heard of The Movie Proposal, where I’m the co-host with Skye Jethani, who is on another podcast, The Holy Post, with Phil Vischer, who is on a podcast with Christian Taylor.

Christian: Right.

Josh: The same podcast, The Holy Post.

Christian: Right.

Josh: So, what a tangled web we weave.

Christian: That’s right. That’s right.

Josh: We have known each other now for quite a long time, and it all kind of began when Phil Vischer started VeggieTales a long, many, many years ago. And then I joined that journey in 1999 for 3 years. I just happened to be a neighbor. Lived across the street from you.

Christian: Yeah.

Josh: And then my future wife was living with you.

Christian: That’s true. That’s true.

Josh: Another tangled web. And Jason kind of came along. How long have you been around?

Jason: Man, I’ve been here almost 3 years. I interned about 5 years ago at this point.

Christian: Yeah. Yeah.

A story that landed in her lap

Josh: Yeah, we kind of watched Jason grow up in this little world. So, and now here we are. So, if you’re listening to this podcast, you want to learn more about the behind the scenes of the soon-to-be-released documentary, The Girl Who Wore Freedom. This is, so, what do you call it? Brainchild of yours, Christian?

Christian: A brainchild of mine. It’s sort of something incredible, an incredible story that landed in my lap, really. I don’t know. What’s the word you say when something just happens? It was meant to be. It’s…

Josh: Serendipity?

Christian: Serendipitously, yes. It kind of fell in my lap that way, and I just… It was a story that I felt compelled to tell. Like I didn’t have another way to get out of it. But…

Trivia: what is cinema verite?

Josh: Well, our mission of this podcast is to enlighten, educate, and inspire audience. And so, let’s kick it off with a little bit of trivia. The Girl Who Wore Freedom is a documentary. So, Christian, can you tell us, what is cinema verite?

Christian: Cinema verite, as best I understand it, it is the truth of the film, the essence of the film, what you’re trying to get across. But it might be good if we ask our researcher over here what the exact definition is.

Jason: Cinema verite is a style of filmmaking characterized by realistic, typically documentary, motion pictures that avoid artificial and artistic effect and are generally made with simple equipment. It is what it is.

Josh: Does that describe your film?

Christian: Yes.

Josh: All right.

Christian: Very much so. We are a documentary. We are trying to tell the truth of a story. And we’re doing it very simply, as simply as we can, ’cause we don’t have a very big budget.

Christian’s background: Capitol Hill, theater and radio

Josh: Understood. So, and this is your first film.

Christian: Yes.

Josh: You are the first-time filmmaker we’re talking about here. So, why don’t you give us a quick background, because, I mean, you have an extensive background in performing and the arts and film, but not making a film. So, what’s your background, Christian?

Christian: Yes, so I studied theater and broadcasting in college. And before that, I worked on Capitol Hill in radio and television news, and I did a lot of, you know, interviewing of congressmen and senators, and I learned how to make little audio programs and video programs. This is back, you know, I don’t know. Were you alive in 1980?

Josh: I was alive.

Christian: But you, born?

Jason: I was negative 15.

Christian: Oh, man. I’m so old. So anyway, that is kind of how I got into the world of media. And then I majored in theater and broadcasting in college, and after that I went with a touring company, the National Players. They’re the nation’s longest-running classical touring company, I might add. And then I took off, had children, and the whole industry changed. It went from analog, you know, actually using tape, to a digital world that I didn’t understand.

And then I went and volunteered at Wheaton College radio, you may have heard that. And I walked in there and didn’t recognize a single piece of equipment. And they, you know, trained me kind of on this new digital world. And that was back in the early 1990s.

Building a voice-over career

Josh: But since then, you have gone on to have a very successful career as a voice-over actress.

Christian: That is true. Thank you very much.

Josh: Which I got to say, from my experience of working a little bit in the film industry, and especially being at VeggieTales, meeting a lot of want-to-be voice-over actors, ’cause it seems like an easy gig.

Christian: Yes, everybody thinks, make a ton of money, right?

Josh: But so, so difficult to get into that industry and be successful. And when I heard you were doing this, I kind of chalked it up as one of those people who was just going to give it a shot, and in 3 years, you’d be on to something else. But you are not only successful, I think you are fantastic, because several times, my wife Angie will play a commercial and say, “Listen to this.” And she’ll say it’s you, and I won’t believe her. It’s amazing. So…

Christian: Yeah. Well, thanks. You know, I’m so glad you point that out. It’s so true. Like, I had somebody say to me just today, “Oh yeah, I was thinking about having my daughters do that. I mean, it can’t be that hard.” And I just want to be like, “Oh my gosh.” So if you’re listening to this podcast and you’re thinking about going in the world of voice-over, let me tell you this: it is the most competitive, the most difficult, you know, industry to kind of break in in this entertainment world. And it’s a lot of money up front, a lot of studying, a lot of different stuff.

Diversifying into producing in Chicago

But what I’ve learned in Chicago is, yes, I’ve been very successful at that, but in order to make a living, make a good living, you really need to diversify. And I wanted to dig into the Chicago production community, and I began volunteering with a lot of other producers on their projects. So, about 15 years ago, I started working with a guy named Lars Allberg, who was a producer from LA, and he moved home to take care of his parents, and Sandy Gordon, another producer in Chicago.

And I kind of cut my teeth on producing as, you know, helping them with their projects, and found out I had a real knack for it. And I think about it, you know, as I look back, I honestly think it’s because I’ve been in the industry so long, and I’ve seen so many different pieces of it, but I also think it’s because I’m a good mom.

Who else is in the boat: building the team

Josh: Well, you are a great mom, and you’re also great at bringing people together, which I’m sure is a big part of a producer’s role, is finding talented people and getting them in the same room and driving in the same direction.

Christian: I say it’s getting in the same boat and rowing in the same… I’ve said that like I don’t know how many times.

Josh: Same concept. So, we’ll go with the boat analogy. So, who else is in the boat with you? And how is this film getting made?

Christian: Yeah. So, I have to say that the most important thing from the very beginning was finding the right group of people, because I knew that I didn’t know how to tell a documentary or create a film at all, but I did know a lot of people in the industry that could help me. And so, I went to Lars Allberg and Sandy Gordon and said, “Hey, this is my idea, you know, can I do this? What do you think about this?” And they began advising me on ways to start in terms of finding out what my story is, and all of the different challenges that lay ahead of me.

And you know, I had to talk to my family. We all had to commit as a family that we were going to do this, financially and every other way. You know, my time was going to be severely limited.

If I can do this, anyone can

But I think what’s interesting at this point, and it’s why I feel like this documentary is critically important: I could have never fathomed, really, that I could produce a film. And now here we are almost 2 years later, really three from the very beginning. And if I would have known what I know now about how to create what I’m in the process of creating, I don’t know that I would have ever started. But what I do know now, looking back, is that if I can do this, anyone can do this. Truthfully.

Josh: Mhm.

Christian: You just have to have a better understanding of the industry, and you have to believe that you can do this. And there are some individual things that you do need to do and gifts that you need to cultivate, but truthfully, if you’re listening to this podcast and you have a story to tell, I want to encourage you to think about how to tell it, to keep listening to this podcast, ’cause I’m going to give you a lot of successes I’ve had and failures and mistakes I’ve made. But one thing that Ken Burns says to me, he’s one of my favorite documentary filmmakers, he says that truthfully you can study all you want about making a documentary, but you know nothing until you make your first one.

Josh: Got to go do it.

Christian: You just need to do it, and I find that to be 100% true. So…

Just go do it: advice from the producer of Elf

Josh: Well, we just had the producer of Elf on our podcast recently. Todd, I’m going to say this, Komarnicki.

Christian: Komarnicki.

Josh: He was telling us a story how he often gets invited to speak at universities and colleges and so forth to want-to-be producers and writers and so forth, and give his story and advice. And he says, “I’m going to tell you right now what I’m going to tell them.” Which is, if you want to be a writer, you need to leave this auditorium, you need to go and start writing.

Christian: Yeah.

Josh: And you just keep writing and writing and writing. And Skye Jethani, who is also a writer, he jumped all over that and said, “Yes.” People are looking for, I don’t know, their shortcut way or just a class to take or the inspiration they need, when they just need to be home writing. They just need to go do it.

Christian: Right.

Two languages, two countries and a virtual team

Josh: So, now, you don’t have a film studio or a sound stage or, you know, giant production company. I mean, so, like, give us maybe a minute or two on just how are you actually making the film? I mean, first of all, you had to go to Normandy to shoot the film.

Christian: Yeah, I mean, that’s been one of the biggest challenges: this is a film that is in two languages and two different countries. And that is an incredible challenge. And the other challenge is that my entire team is virtual. None of us work in the same place.

Josh: Okay.

Christian: And so, we have endeavored to do something that is almost nearly impossible. Like, I feel like we are on the cutting edge of what new technology is allowing us to do, but we have run into so many different problems because no technology exists to kind of help us. We’ve had to cobble things together in order to get something done.

Josh: It reminds me of when Phil talks about how he wanted to animate characters and there was no CGI at the time, and he cobbled together a machine.

Christian: Sure.

Josh: So much so that he got candy bars at first, but then vegetables, but they couldn’t even have any arms. So, it’s sort of the same thing, but just, you know…

Jason: You’re inventing by necessity?

Christian: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I have a lot of things to share in this podcast about how we, you know, are doing what we’re doing right now.

Post-production and why the credits are so long

So, just so you know, we are in the post-production phase. We are set to screen this in Normandy this summer.

Josh: Post-production means you’ve shot the film.

Christian: Yes.

Josh: It’s all on, what I would, you know, what people call video or film, right? And then someone is editing it right now?

Christian: Several people are editing. Jason is one of our, you know, trusty assistant editors, but we have about five or six that are kind of helping us. And then we’ve had translators and transcribers and people that are subtitling, and I mean, the list goes on and on and on. If you have ever wondered why the credits are so long at the end of movies, I can tell you.

Josh: Who’s the best boy? Who’s the…

Jason: Do we even have a best boy?

Christian: No, it’s just a mediocre boy. You can cut out a lot of jobs that you see on that list, but you still have to have people that do all those responsibilities. You just lessen the people that do them.

What’s ahead on the podcast

Josh: So going forward on this podcast, what types of topics are we going to be hitting, so our audience can get an idea?

Christian: Yeah, well, you can, you’re kind of… Yeah, go ahead, because you’re going to drive this. You’re going to be asking me the questions, and…

Josh: Well, Christian, we’re going to talk about inspiration: how did you even get this idea? How did it get started? So that beginning phase, that serendipitous experience you had. Then the actual, like, step-by-step putting it together. What is the, you know, the day job? And raising money, having investors. That’s a big part of it, ’cause you’re not just there filming it, but you’re talking to people about getting involved from a financial point of view and so on. So we’ll cover a lot of those details so you get a better idea of how a documentary gets made in this day and age.

Christian: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s super important to understand, like, you know, when did we decide to make this story? Why do I say that I felt compelled to do it? I didn’t have another choice. How do I financially work and, you know, pay the overhead for Taylor Productions at the same time I’m creating a whole new business, which is what a film is? How do I figure out what the story is? How do we, you know, fundraise in order to do this film?

You know, what do you do to tell a documentary story? What are the different pieces? You know, what is it like to work with a writer or a composer? How do you find these people? How do you get people to volunteer when you have no money? Spoiler alert, it happens to do with podcasts sometimes. You know, and how do you conduct interviews? We can talk about lighting, we can talk about camera, there’s just so many different things.

But in the end, you know, one of the things that I think is most important is how do you get the ball across the finish line? Because what I am finding is where projects collapse most of the time is in the post-production. And I can tell you why and how to avoid that.

Closing and next time

Josh: Can’t wait to learn. Well, cool. Well, thank you, Jason, for being here, Christian, for doing this podcast and making the film. I just want to say to our audience, thank you for listening to Documentary First, where we believe everyone has a story to tell and you can be the one to tell it. And next time on Documentary First, do you know what our subject’s going to be?

Christian: I think I might have an idea.

Jason: Well, I don’t. Do you want to tell us?

Christian: Yeah. We’re going to talk about the inspiration behind the story. How did it start?

Josh: Yeah. All right, fantastic. I can’t wait. So, thanks, everybody.

Christian: Bye, everybody.

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